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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

60 Minutes: Detransitioners

38 replies

rogdmum · 24/05/2021 07:23

I haven’t found a way to view the whole episode from the U.K., but a chunk of it is here:

twitter.com/jasonrantz/status/1396641801436467205?s=21

No one is happy with it. 30 detransitioners were interviewed, but little of their interviews made the final cut after word of the programme was leaked and pressure was put on 60 Minutes to switch focus, TRAs aren’t happy because detransitioners got air time. It sounds as though the WPATH segment came before the clip above, but watching the clip I think it will raise awareness of the issue in the US.

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MondayYogurt · 28/05/2021 13:39

Read detrans stories (reddit). Listen to detrans voices (youtube).

They are under so much pressure to remain silent, compliant, to hide what has happened to them.

If we're talking oppression and marginalisation, I think detransitioners suffer terribly from being cast out of trans communities and pressured to conform to the pro-trans narrative.

But there are 19.9k members on detrans reddit, and there's no way to keep quashing all their voices forever.

MnaWomanIreland · 28/05/2021 12:40

I need the tide to turn quickly.

FindTheTruth · 28/05/2021 09:28

Brilliant thread on the reaction to the 60 minutes episode:

Watson @ImWatson91
On the vilification of detransitioners:

After having my account unsuspended, with an apology from Twitter for wrongfully suspending me, I decided to scroll through the reaction to the 60 minutes episode that discussed detransition.

And I'm sick to my stomach by it.

1/12

twitter.com/ImWatson91/status/1397984035876577282

Helleofabore · 27/05/2021 16:33

@FindTheTruth

The silencing attempts

TWEET
4thWaveNow @4th_WaveNow

Today Jo Olson-Kennedy said that she, too, had tried to pressure
@60minutes & @LesleyRStahl into cancelling coverage of detransitioners. So the bullying came not just from activists, but from the most esteemed practitioners of gender medicine

What I find surprising is that there seems to be no awareness of how tweets such as that from Olsen-Kennedy come across to people who are probably still fence sitting. Hearing that she applied pressure to prevent a group of young people telling their story of their experience should automatically start clanging of alarm bells in anyone's mind.

They are saying the quiet bits out loud now. It is all becoming too easy to see the machinations now.

HPFA · 27/05/2021 16:24

Bowers knows that lawsuits are coming.

On the detrans reddit there was a posting that a law firm in Australia is looking for clients for a class action lawsuit.

MattDamon · 27/05/2021 16:21

All the comments I've seen on news articles have been 100% supportive of the segment, with many lamenting how hard it is to find neutral news reporting in American media anymore.

WarriorN · 26/05/2021 18:35

I'm really not surprised.

Hopefully there's some cracks of sunlight showing...

FindTheTruth · 26/05/2021 17:06

The silencing attempts

TWEET
4thWaveNow @4th_WaveNow

Today Jo Olson-Kennedy said that she, too, had tried to pressure
@60minutes & @LesleyRStahl into cancelling coverage of detransitioners. So the bullying came not just from activists, but from the most esteemed practitioners of gender medicine

FindTheTruth · 26/05/2021 08:59

and another

JD Ghassan Robertson @JuliaDRobertson
Replying to @glaad @60Minutes @LesleyRStahl
Liars! Labeling toddlers, medicalizing 8y/o kids & doing dbl mastectomies on 12y/o children, WAY before they ever have a chance to reach full cognitive brain development, is NOT the right side of history—It's a MASSIVE human rights violation of LGB youth & THIS WILL NOT AGE WELL

Quote Tweet
GLAAD*@glaad*
Tonight @60Minutes @LesleyRStahl aired a shameful segment fearmongering about trans youth. Parents of trans youth could walk away with the false belief that young people are being rushed into medical transition. That is simply untrue. (1/7)

FindTheTruth · 26/05/2021 08:51

Great response on twitter

LGB Alliance @ALLIANCELGB

The segment allowed certain individuals to tell their stories. It would be shameful to say these individuals don’t have the right to tell their stories. Their stories belong to them. They related their lived experience.

Quote Tweet
GLAAD@glaad
Tonight @60Minutes @LesleyRStahl aired a shameful segment fearmongering about trans youth. Parents of trans youth could walk away with the false belief that young people are being rushed into medical transition. That is simply untrue. (1/7)

WarriorN · 24/05/2021 17:46

Amazing mindset from Helena:

twitter.com/lacroicsz/status/1396833557054697482?s=21

WarriorN · 24/05/2021 16:44

Just giving her a voice...

Helleofabore · 24/05/2021 16:37

I'm still fuming Watson has gone

I hear you!

WarriorN · 24/05/2021 16:22

I can understand it; one is being very gracious about it.

It sounds like the only way to get it aired was to frame it as a "trans health care" issue. (Which has most upset those who definitely no longer see them selves as trans.) Reminds me a bit if the mental gymnastics woman's hour seems to have to do sometimes.

They at least have very good twitter feeds with lots of research and resources.

I'm still fuming Watson has gone. :(

Helleofabore · 24/05/2021 16:07

That was a whole lot of investment by Gareth and the others for one hours interview. The reframing, if it happened after they did the interview, I can understand being unhappy.

WarriorN · 24/05/2021 15:59

It doesn't seem like the people interviewed were particularly impressed with the final result:

twitter.com/detransgayguy/status/1396615593902710784?s=21

FindTheTruth · 24/05/2021 13:14

thanks for the summary Helleofabore. at least detransitioners have started to be heard

Helleofabore · 24/05/2021 12:37

WarriorN

Reading the link rodgmum posted about the piece, it does seem they had the intention to be more focused on the detransitioners and the issues, but were convinced by the professionals that doing so would mean more hate, and probably (my assumption) more suicides because that was highlighted so much through out.

I think they pulled their punches on this one.

Helleofabore · 24/05/2021 12:34

PaleBlueMoonlight

It did not mention much of the underlying issues that should be treated first. In fact, it was trying so hard to sit on the fence that it really neglected to present a full picture of WHY the bans are coming into place. To be fair, they had the clinician who stated that the current treatments weren't working and that people simply did not want to hear about it and other clinicians were worried about their safety so did not speak out.

They left it at a transitioned male psychologist's statement that it is all just coming from ignorance and prejudice even though that person did say there were some issues, they did not really expand on it. They left it as 'some clinicians are not qualified'.

WarriorN · 24/05/2021 12:33

It sounds like they needed to do more research. Almost there but not quite.

Great that they have started to give detransitioners a voice, especially when twitter keeps banning or cancelling them. But still more work to do.

Interesting that WPATH are now making up their own new guidance 🤔

Helleofabore · 24/05/2021 12:30

WarriorN

Yes Warrior. They fail to mention the growing bank of evidence that is accruing in Europe that WPATHs guidelines are not fit for purpose for the growing cohort of young people transitioning.

And certainly did NOT mention the Dutch Dr's warnings.

PaleBlueMoonlight · 24/05/2021 12:27

Does it discuss other treatment options? Are it give other examples of physical treatments being used to treat psychological problems?

nauticant · 24/05/2021 12:20

The original segment attracted considerable criticism and 60 Minutes did a short follow-up:

Dr Marci L Bowers is a leading gender reassignment surgeon, and also a transwoman, and is getting nervous at how widely treatments are spreading, and how less expert practitioners are enthusiastically rushing into the field. Bowers knows that lawsuits are coming.

Alphonso David takes the line that detransitioners have to be silenced for the greater good of trans folx. He believes it's wrong for any story looking into this not to do cheerleading.

Dr Lee Savio Beers says that we have to send positive messages to transgender youth and their families about transitioning.

WarriorN · 24/05/2021 12:13

So they fail to mention that WPATH follow the Dutch protocol but also that the Dutch protocol has now been criticised in Denmark and Sweden (abandoned?) and wasn't developed for teens who showed no signs of GD as children?

Helleofabore · 24/05/2021 11:55

Just watching: Summary for those without the digital software to watch it.

First half includes male transitioner Erica Anderson (Pyschologist) from University of California stating how ominous any bans for children transitioning is and how it is only based on ignorance and prejudice.

Dr Lee Savio-Biers (American Academy of Pediatrics) - stating none of it is experimental, treatments have been based in scientific literature and all treatments have been well documented and used for decades. And backed by a number of major medical organisations. She says there is not any rational for the banning of medical treatment for children transitioning.

Mentions WPATH. And that Under 18: for homones or surgery should have parental consent, and have been seen by therapist. Over 18: for hormones can sign a consent after an initial consultation. For surgery, Over 18 should have seen a therapist.

Mentions WPATH will have revised guidelines by end of 2021.

Goes back to Anderson talking about conversion therapy etc. However, Anderson does admit that clinicians are not always following the WPATH (they have been part of team to develop those WPATH guidelines) and that some clinicians are not well trained. They admit that some doctors take on patients because they are 'interesting' and that doing that is deplorable.

Then shows one of Anderson's patients who they have been treating for 4 years since they were 13. Of course, the patient in a mock counselling session done for the cameras that they would have probably have committed suicide.

Anderson then points out that the criteria for diagnosis for dysphoria is for it to have persisted for 6 months, something that they are not satisfied with (they did not say whether they feel that should be shorter or longer).

Then it goes to the clip tweeted up thread.

And of course, Alfonso David also points out suicide stats in that part of the clip too.

Grace comes across as very well considered.

So no. findthetruth. It does not mention other countries, at all.

I don't know whether people will take on the message that the trans community don't want the negative stories to be told so that questions are raised or whether people will take that at complete face value that people will just hate on trans people if any questions are raised and those people are just ignorant prejudiced people anyway. I don't know the audience at all for this program.

So, yes. Just a whole lot of downplaying by professionals and the brave detransitioners coming across pointing out the flaws in the system and Grace's take of 'why would anyone not want the best health care in place' (my paraphrasing)?