Local Men's Group

LadyCatStark

The issue is 'trans' kids and adults being accepted as if they are the sex they claim to be.
That makes organisations mixed sex without actually making it clear.

Oh OK sorry, my experience of scouting/guiding was pre the trans fashion, even though it’s only been a few years since DS was in Beavers so it wasn’t really something I had to think about then 😂. Makes you realise how quickly it’s all come about 🤯.

Men’s spaces are under ‘threat’ from a different direction. There were plenty of clubs i that were men only, but most have been persuaded to allow women. I was never sure that this was wise at the time it was happening - I always believed that sometimes sex-specific spaces were a good thing

It depends on the space. When it denies women the opportunity to participate in employment related networking etc its not fair. But health groups etc absolutely. Men should be able to have their own space.

I get cross when people compare it to the girl guides though. The scouts were boys only. But when numbers dropped it was either allow women to host the group and let girls join or lose it Al together and now it's thrown in our faces.

This seems to he a common theme. Many womens groups and spaces were set up by and for women . There was nothing stopping Men doing the same. Instead the attitude seems to be that if they can't join the womens group then it shouldn't exist at all. The solution seems always to take away. Never to add.

Men absolutely should have the ability to have a group exclusive to men but that's up to them to sort out tbh.

Stopping to their level and infiltrating the mens groups that do exist doesn't seem.right. but again if men don't want transmen to join their groups that's their fight. We can't do both. They have to sort that out fir themselves

Exclusively men's clubs:

The Garrick
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garrick_Club

The Buffs - "Royal Antediluvium Order of Buffaloes"
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Antediluvian_Order_of_Buffaloes#Membership

Augusta National Golf Club (Home of the US Masters)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augusta_National_Golf_Club#Membership

The Masons (Regular freemasonry)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemasonry

Round Table
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Round_Table_(club)

Rather ironically, the Flyfisher's Club does not admit women members, despite the fact that a woman still holds the UK salmon record at 64lbs - Georgina Ballantyyne in 1922

www.salmon-fishing-holidays.com/The_British_Record_Salmon-1514-news

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flyfishers%27_Club

Alist of London clubs, some of which still do not admit women as members or even as guests.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_gentlemen%27s_clubs_in_London

@LadyCatStark

Guides do allow natal born boys in though, if they self id as girls.

And on camps, the parents won't be allowed to know there is a natal born boy in the same tent as their natal born girls.

Huge safeguarding issue, right there

yetanotherSpartacus not talking about feminists...more like the WI though not...

^on the London Underground that is.

Also, ladies' lounges and carriages on trains and waiting rooms have also gone.

When they were proposed a couple of years ago, there was outrage about it on this very forum.

It’s not really fair to compare the men’s club to the WI though as they’re separate organisations. You can’t say that because the WI allow men, all men’s clubs must allow women. It’s the same as Scouts allowing girls but Guides not allowing boys; they’re 2 separate organisations albeit similar and they’re free to make their own rules. Personally, I think the issue here is with the WI not the men’s club.

I fully support the right of Adult Human Females to have sex-segregated spaces, and I also happen to belong to a men's group.

I think it could actually be counterproductive to pursue this issue by trying to get into men's spaces in this way: if the men are fine with it and feel unthreatened, they might then conclude that it's also fine to change laws and customs in a way that allows males to enter female spaces.

A more effective way to educate more men on this issue might be to point them to this excellent and relatively new website: www.sex-matters.org.

Also, ladies' lounges and carriages on trains and waiting rooms have also gone.

Parliament was also a men's only space once don't forget.

Just because men's only spaces have disappeared it does not mean that this is not fair or just (someone please sort out the double-negative there).

A local men's group posted on social media that they did accept transmen, in response to a request.
I suspect not many are wanting to.
Men don't want to join women's clubs, activist transwomen do.

It does illustrate that men's single-sex spaces are under no threat

I don't believe that's true. Lots of men only spaces have already gone. Not only places of power too. Pubs, or men only rooms in pubs, for example, workng class ones.
It seems like it's only the places of power: expensive golf clubs, masons and gentlemen's clubs, that remain.
Working class men have given up their male only spaces.

There does seem to be a huge misconception around man clubs and a seeming need to destroy them. I belong to Andys Man Club and it does a huge amount of good its definitely not about power and privilege. I have no idea if it allows trans men although going by the general attitude if a trans man went along and simply joined in I'm not sure it would be a problem, if someone went and kicked up a fuss at lot of us probably just stop going.

. Meanwhile lesbians are told we shouldn’t be having separate events from the bigger women’s networks...despite our stating that all women were welcome..

Who is saying this? Women in the traditional sense or others? I'm confused because separate lesbian spaces were always accepted in the second-wave.

Women calling themselves male identified should start invading men's spaces. That would get more men fighting back with us

Ha ha. I'd love that. They wouldn't fight with us though. They'd see us as the enemy and their space as sacred.

Funny how men's only spaces are mostly ones of power and privilege where cigars are smoked, whisky is drunk and decisions are made amongst men - or perhaps women are there for entertainment and as wank-fodder whereas women's spaces are one's of vulnerability where women have fled from men.

Funny how only one of these sex-based spaces is open to invasion.

I’m seeing lots of men’s mental health schemes emerging such as Men’s Walks, Men’s Sheds etc...it’s good that men’s mental health needs are being addressed but yes, the double standard grates on me too.

Where I live there are two men’s groups..one social and one more for discussion /support. I suspect that they might accept a transman , but actually they do good stuff in a small community for the men involved. I fully support their right to be men only. Meanwhile lesbians are told we shouldn’t be having separate events from the bigger women’s networks...despite our stating that all women were welcome..

Two wrongs don't make a right. The WI should not be open to men.

The situation at the Hampstead pools was disgraceful and I was surprised that the group didn't take that situation further.

The Man Friday group doesn't exist any more but there's nothing to stop anyone else taking it further.

I don't think it's fair, however tempting, to barge in on vulnerable men who need peer support to make a point. This.

I think it's counterproductive to sabotage anything that counters toxic masculinity. Often, when men want access to women's stuff, they get told 'do your OWN support!' So, we shouldn't undermine them doing that. Good on these men.

But the men invading our spaces? They can fuck off.

I do think men need single sex spaces for emotional support or to share interests.

I don't think it's fair, however tempting, to barge in on vulnerable men who need peer support to make a point.

Mens spaces have not been under threat from a different direction - they have had to comply wih the Equality Act. There are still men only clubs for example.

If transwomen can have access to women spaces and threaten action if they don't then transmen have equal access to mens spaces. That includes any woman who feels like a man that day. As usual women are expected to be nice and budge up but we must leave the mens spaces alone The situation at the Hampstead pools was disgraceful and I was surprised that the group didn't take that situation further.

I have long since thought that if this situation continues then women, en masse, need to start using mens spaces very proactively. I can guarantee there would be a national outcry.

It does illustrate that men's single-sex spaces are under no threat

Men’s spaces are under ‘threat’ from a different direction. There were plenty of clubs i that were men only, but most have been persuaded to allow women. I was never sure that this was wise at the time it was happening - I always believed that sometimes sex-specific spaces were a good thing.