Kathleen Stock OBE: Trans Women Aren't Women : A discussion

Cross post

I agreed as well delph and got told i was slurring and stuff 😩

Responding to Waitwhat23 there to be clear.

I was picking the bits pertinent to what has been said in this thread. It does refute several statements made here, such as the first sentence: 'It's a view held by most people, so why has it become so controversial to state that trans women aren't women?' and the idea that men would be more accepting of trans people being the gender they say they are than women.

Flounce

I'm a feminist and I didn't think "flounce" meant something bad. From context, it appears a British slang to "jump away" or "leave."

I'd equate it to American slang, "leave in a huff."

Flounce?

Okaaay

Its a very well known MN word...there is even a board for it

That YouGov survey is fairly disingenuous for a few reasons. Firstly, it talks about self identifying into a new gender, which on the face of it seems reasonable, however it doesn't make it clear that this means that the transgender person will then be using services which are separated by sex. I suspect if the wording reflected that, the answers would be considerably different.
Secondly, if you read the full survey results, the answers are very different when it is clarified that the transgender person has not been through a 'sex change'. Given that some 80% of transgender people do not go through surgical transition and many of the general public are unaware of this fact, to say people are 'generally accepting of transgender people using the facilities which correspond with their gender' is really not the true picture.

Fourth post tonight to deliberately twist what I have said

I copied your words exactly. How is it twisted? I AGREED with you that Joe Public may think boobs and a hole make one a woman.

I pointed out how this is misogyny. I'm a woman, so it's easier for me to spot it

I realise you may struggle to understand, but its all there in my post for everyone to read.
Maybe someone can explain it for you.

Oh don’t flounce when im agreeing with you!

My dad thought that man who had his penis removed was a woman

I asked if he was saying that if he lost his penis in a tragic accident he would be a woman

He said no obviously

People don’t think things through

I'm fed up having my words twisted and taken out of context to suit your own agendas

or analysed and understood

happy flounce!

Carry on having a "discussion" amongst yourselves.

I'm fed up having my words twisted and taken out of context to suit your own agendas.

Pathetic!

@Delphinium20said it better, but I'm struggling to understand what other contexts there are to Joe Public would consider a male who has grown breasts and had a vagina created (I know there is more to being a woman before I get shot down in flames, but for the purpose of this discussion lets keep it simple) would consider that said male was now for all intents and purposes female

having silicone implanted in your chest and a surgically created cavity does not make males female

men who are not generally used to risk assessing males in the way women are may think such cosmetic changes render a man indistinguishable from a woman, but from the point of view of women they'd be quite wrong

in addition, you've glossed over how fucking offensive it is to reduce womanhood to tits and a hole. it's still fucking offensive though.

you are writing from a male perspective

Not at all ludicrous for anyone with an open mind, I still maintain that Joe Public would consider a male who has grown breasts and had a vagina created (I know there is more to being a woman before I get shot down in flames, but for the purpose of this discussion lets keep it simple) would consider that said male was now for all intents and purposes female

Of course "Joe" Public might agree...but a large part of the public see women as no more than a hole to f$ck and boobs to view. This is the ugliest bit of your misogyny... that the simplest way to become a woman is 2 surgical parts with zero biological function, but may "appear" female for only the basest of male desires.

Female breasts and vaginas are designed to grow because of our childbearing function of sex. Nothing more. Thank god for feminism and birth control, abortion and economic opportunities because many women no longer need to be chained to this function against our wishes.

It is not an open mind you seek, but a misogynistic mind. Sadly, Joe Public will provide you many.

YouGov:

''when the YouGov survey asked whether or not Britons themselves consider a transgender person to be the new gender identity they have adopted, four in ten Britons (40-41%) believe they are, compared to 36% who disagree.'

yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2020/07/16/where-does-british-public-stand-transgender-rights

''Joe Public might think that (although I expect not for all intents and purposes). Josephine Public may well disagree.''

Follow the link, women are significantly more likely to agree that 'a transwoman is a woman and a transman is a man' than men - 49% of women agree, 29% disagree.

Just watched the video in full with my DH. She is brilliant.

I still maintain that Joe Public would consider a male who has grown breasts and had a vagina created [...] would consider that said male was now for all intents and purposes female.

"Breasts and had a vagina created [...] purposes [...] female."

Very male perspective that.

A tube has been fashioned out of some tissue, which you consider meets the requirements of the purpose of the female body.

Quite telling.

Why don't you try having a thought of your own and join in the discussion instead of trying to score points.