Kathleen Stock OBE: Trans Women Aren't Women : A discussion

Why would a transwoman who knows they're not a woman want to attend a lesbian event or go on a lesbian dating app? Or insist on their right to attend sessions at a women's centre, or become a volunteer at a rape crisis centre that only offers services to women? Why would someone who knows that they are actually male want to try and destroy women's safe spaces and services?

I have seen variously

Cis woman
Female
Female at birth
Grew up as a girl

From what I can remember.

The whole point is to have no differentiator. Any words for female people will be claimed and used.

If women all said ok have all those words we'll be boutiers, then that word would be claimed.

We're only allowed to be referred to by female body parts. Which is dehumanising, and disguises the spectrum of things women and girls experience because they're female.

Even feminism/ women's rights is not supposed to be just for females any more and we've seen the argument that the focus should not be 'gynocentric' which is what our problems are down to (our biology) and also relates directly to a lot of our issues- abortion, treatment by the medical profession eg vaginal mesh and so on.

It really is a wholesale attack on women even though I'm sure many of those who support it don't see that.

A lot of the trans people I see on YouTube may not say out right that they think they are biological women, but they then invariably go on to spout a lot of nonsense (frankly) about DSDs, about sex not being binary, about 'spectrums' etc, effectively saying that 'male' and 'female' are not biological realities, and that this somehow means there is neither really 'male' nor 'female', and then it's just a hop, skip and a jump to them 'actually' being more female than male, don't you know.
And they ALWAYS misrepresent the actual number of people born with DSDs. And they NEVER say how many of that vanishingly rare group are actually trans.
And I have seen at least one who states that trans women have more in common BIOLOGICALLY with cis women than they do with cis males. Work that one out!

"Did you mean to be so rude, @BilindaB"

I did not mean to be rude. So far this discussion has been respectful, and I'd like it to stay that way.

I've seen at least one high profile transwoman say she identified as a cis woman.

We've also had transwomen on here who are horrified by the TRA agenda. One spoke movingly on a different thread of her own personal experiences of wanting to transition but made it clear that she is fully aware that her sex is male. Several of their posts were reported and deleted, seemingly for 'generalisations' about the trans community (despite it being their own account of their experiences). There are self appointed monitors of the FWR board who wish not only to police women's opinions on here but also those of transwomen who stray from the 'party line'.

You are either mistaken or lying, I wonder which. Which makes me doubt some of the other names you list.

Did you mean to be so rude, @BilindaB ?

Nuts? Not sure we can engage with that!

BilindaB you also clearly missed, or deliberately ignored, the hoo-ha over the census there were an awful lot of TW's out there not only saying they are women but also insisting that are female.

BilindaB We've had trans posters on here, I'm not going to name them as it is against the rules, who have not only stated they are actual women but also that they ARE female and always have been.

Again transwomen are not a subset of women they are a subset of men, in order to be a subset of women they would need to female and they don't qualify.

Didn’t mean to include the screenshot about old timey doctors obviously.

@BilindaB honestly. My ex is trans. There are plenty of them who think exactly this way. Many don’t. I have more trans friends than most so I’m aware it’s not all. But it’s enough to have an impact on biological women.

My ex literally tags his pics as “stealth” meaning he thinks he passes and others wouldn’t know. He’s 6ft 3 with a huge Adam’s apple, 40 inch rib cage and a 5 o clock shadow.

He literally told me no man want where will turn him down.

He also told me the best thing about changes to the gra would be that I would have no place he couldn’t access.

Trigger warning on the image I’ve posted. It contains a screenshot of him advertising sex in a popular teen hangout spot at prime time for tipsy teens being there.

So yes. There’s plenty who do. He gets support on this shit in Facebook groups. He’s not alone.

You've been answered. You just moved the question on a bit.

Funny but when someone else named a transwoman who does NOT think they are female you ignored it (much like you ignored the majority of everything else people have been patient and polite enough to post for you) but YOU bring up 2 names and what? What do you think you are proving? Or have you lost track of that?

This is like trying to get Boris Johnson to answer a straight question.

Oh! Isn't she sweet! We lie! For fun, presumably! Or because we are trying to .. erm... well.. nope! Can't work that one out!'

You were either lying or mistaken. Which one? Natalie Wynn and Abigail Thorne both know that they used to be male-bodied, they are not under some delusion that they were born a fully intact biological women with all eggs inside them; they are women - trans-women to be precise (which is a subset of women).

Yes She was wasn't she! As well as all that other nasty crap she got thrown at her, including that word I think we get deleted for using here!

Note @BilindaB we used her preferred pronouns - do you know why? Because, despite all that has gone on we are still basically polite and see no reason to be unpleasant for the sake of it. That may not be so true of the "Die in a grease fire", piss on your office door, threaten you with complaints of hate crimes to the police, have you taken out of your home whilst feeding your kids breakfast for saying transwomen are men, type people!

Or indeed posters who arrive here and ask disingenuous questions expecting to be applauded elsewhere! We see a lot of that and it is annoying but is the price we pay for having these conversations in the first place! We, GC women, are more likely to be deleted from here than anyone dropping in simply to provoke and garner quotes for Twitter. Guess who does that.... go on, have a guess!

The problem isn't so much that we are expected to accept that trans woman are woman. The problem is that we must accept they are women in EXACTLY the same way as female women are women

I don’t understand

The paragraph above just says that we must accept trans women are exactly the same as women

There is nothing about transwomen actually believing that they are biological women so why are we having to come up with names?

Wasn't Dr Debbie Hayton threatened with disciplinary action for stating that she is biologically a man? I'm sure there's an unpleasant term used by TRA's for transpeople who are fully aware that they haven't literally changed sex.

Thanks @BilindaB We can all relaxe. Tis over!

I have a really nice bottle of Cava in the fridge, I might just crack it opneen!