Should Muslim women be forced to give beauty treatments to males?

Perhaps they should employ a male manicurist. Straight/gay/trans aside it's not that uncommon these days for young men to have a manicure. I don't think they can actually claim to be a unisex salon if they object to having male customers.

If a man won't sit next to a woman on a flight, then he has the option to get off the flight or ensure he books a seat next to male friends. What he can't do is insist that the woman sat next to him has to move or get off the flight. He has every right not to want to sit next to a woman. He can want all he likes. He has no right to dictate what the woman does. Airlines don't operate on a sex segregated seating basis. If, on a particular flight, they can move him, great. If they can't, they wouldn't be discriminating against him. They can't ask the woman to move to accommodate him.

I worked quite a bit in the Middle East. Men didn’t shake my hand. They respected my opinions, we had good working relationships and they emailed me Happy Christmas. I wished them happy Eid.

For the people here who think that the Muslim woman should just have done this male’s nails, do you also think that I should have insisted on shaking hands with my Middle Eastern colleagues?

As a side note, there was one Muslim woman we had a meeting with. I did shake her hand. She didn’t shake my male, British colleagues hands. Should they have made a fuss as well?

the services may involve physical contact between a user and someone else and that other person may reasonably object if the user is of the opposite sex.

Ok. That would seem to cover this situation

Andrea is Italian. Andrea is a man's name in Italy.

Which part of my post didn't cover that?

And is it also a bit colonialist when people of other religions refuse to serve gay people, for example? Or when men won't sit next to women on flights?

Well no, it wouldn't be would it?

Because they're stating their own personal boundaries based on their culture, not demanding that everyone else abandons their own beliefs and culture and does it too because their way is the superior and right one

Sorry, but are you actually defending men who refuse to sit beside women on airplanes?

@Puntastic - unless Treatwell - Style Studio changed the listing in the last few seconds, on the Treatwell site it states "ladies" under manicures.

On the Style Studio site, it does not specify. It lists "Gents" as a separate category from "manicures and pedicures" and under this section lists only "gents - styling".

This is crucial because if Di Giovanni booked through Treatwell and not directly through the salon, he would have known. But what is clear is that Di Giovanni complained to Treatwell.

Andrea's website says this:

His individual flair and charisma caught the eye of Drag Race superstar Ru Paul, who has supported him openly on Twitter. This became a significant milestone for Andrea, who felt even more enabled to push the boundaries of a 'masculine' society and embrace his individuality.

Pushing the boundaries of masculine society. Brilliant. What went wrong? Or is it just the non binary bandwagon everyone seems to be jumping on? At some point, none of them are going to be special anymore.

Just reading a bit more about when beauticians can refuse to serve someone of the opposite sex.

www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/525230/response/1298678/attach/html/10/WhatEqualityMeansForYourBusiness%20CombinedDocs%20Redacted.pdf.html

This says:

You are allowed to provide separate services for men and women where providing a joint service (ie one where men and women are provided with exactly the same service) would not be as effective. You are also allowed to provide separate services for men and women in different ways or to a different level where:
• providing a joint service would not be as effective, and
• the extent to which the service is required by one sex makes it not reasonably practicable to provide the service except in the different ways or to the different level.
In each case, you need to be able to objectively justify what you are doing.

You are allowed to provide single-sex services (services just for men or just for women)
where this is objectively justified and:
• only men or only women require the service, or
• there is joint provision for both sexes but that is not enough on its own, or
• if the service were provided for men and women jointly, it would not be as effective
and the extent to which each sex requires the service makes it not reasonably practicable to provide separate services for each sex because of the extent to which the service is required by persons of each sex, or
• the services are provided in a hospital or other place where users need special care,
supervision or attention (or in parts of such an establishment), or
• the services may be used by more than one person at the same time and a woman
might reasonably object to the presence of a man (or vice versa), or
• the services may involve physical contact between a user and someone else and that other person may reasonably object if the user is of the opposite sex.

So this case would surely be covered by the physical contact element, though most people if not religious would probably be OK with touching the hands of someone of the opposite sex.

If it is not a single sex space then the religious belief of an employee does not allow them to discriminate on the basis of sex.

Di Giovanni refers to himself as "him", "his" and "he".

It's a power play, targeting a single sex service, knowing they would be refused and its all publicity for him/her/they

And is it also a bit colonialist when people of other religions refuse to serve gay people, for example? Or when men won't sit next to women on flights?

Well no, it wouldn't be would it?

Because they're stating their own personal boundaries based on their culture, not demanding that everyone else abandons their own beliefs and culture and does it too because their way is the superior and right one.

You might not agree with what that person is saying or the values they're demonstrating. You might think they're an unpleasant person. But there's a reason why these things are protected characteristics and why tolerance is needed, with acceptance that people have their boundaries in different places for different reasons. And I say that as a lesbian, to whom homophobia isn't a theoretical thing.

[quote AlfonsoTheTerrible]@InTheHeatOfTheSun - your comment intrigued me so I looked up Di Giovanni's web site - andreadigiovanni.it/about/.

Di Giovanni refers to himself as "him", "his" and "he".[/quote]
He does indeed. A bit less fluid on his website.

Isn't this how that burger person got famous? Complained to national media about not being allowed in the women's changing rooms in topshop?

God these people are tedious bullies.

I just checked the Treatwell site - Style Studio list the manicures as being "ladies". I didn't book a treatment but I will take the comment by @bonfireheart to be accurate.

why when their name is Andrea would salon ring to confirm their gender?

It's a name used by both sexes, but traditionally a male name, the Latin form of Andrew, I believe, and literally means "manly".

It's a matter of mutual respect. If a gender-fluid or Trans person wishes to be respected for their beliefs, they also need to respect a Muslim woman's belief too.

@InTheHeatOfTheSun - your comment intrigued me so I looked up Di Giovanni's web site - andreadigiovanni.it/about/.

Di Giovanni refers to himself as "him", "his" and "he".

Gender fluid? So only female when he feels like it? Get lost.

The beautician's services clearly imply women only. Presumably the Muslim woman took the job in the basis she would only be providing treatment to other women. This is clearly a bloke with a bloody moustache. He deserves to have his appointment cancelled.

"He/she/they"
So putting that in my work email signature.

How about "He: for pay/she: for the Equality Act and general use/they: if that's your preference"?