“ Stonewall should stay out of trans rights war” - Times/Matthew Paris

of not off

/facetious

thevelvetchronicle.com/stonewall-vet-fred-sargeant-on-ellen-broidy-this-is-one-of-those-important-unknown-stories/

Fred Sargeant was there at the Stonewall riot and has been at the forefront of LGB rights in the US ever since and he's really clear that there were no T-people involved. And he and I are absolutely effing furious that Storme De Laverie, a butch lesbian, has been claimed to be trans. No. Leave women alone. Stop the abuse of women and the truth.

MissLucy I’m the same. Have been commenting on these issues in The Times for many years and have seen it go from “what’s the big deal about toilets” to “I can’t believe this is happening, it makes no sense.”

A lot of people simply didn’t know what was happening, and a lot of it was happening on Twitter.

It’s been a combination of many events—Janice Turner’s Comment pieces, the Maya Forstater case, etc—but Keira Bell/Tavistock and athletes. People can be quite happy to ignore women, it’s much harder to ignore child protection and...sport. Pretty much everyone has opinions on those two topics.

When J. K. Rowling typed: “ ‘People who menstruate.’ I’m sure there used to be a word for those people,” there was no one who didn’t hear about it.

I did read the article in The Times today. I thought it was a well thought out and expressed in moderate language.
Being in The Times it will be read by a wide range of people.
He warns that 'Gays' should NOT colonise other peoples problems.

There was also a very detailed and thorough article today on University of Essex.

Remember justawoman, we're dealing with a group of people* who believe that if something can't be found on social media it doesn't exist.

• including Ash Sarkar

It's good to hear one of the figures in gay men's history speaking out. He's a former MP and a real part of the 'establishment'. I suspect that the wealthy misogynist wing in the House of Lords won't be happy to see his comments but this is how things change. The current extremes are so unacceptable that in the end, even those who have gone along with unthinking support start realising 'hang on a minute".
Lots of comments under the article from gay men all agreeing with him.

Yeah Mishy. As one of the fourteen founders of Stonewall, it seems he has absolutely no idea about Stonewall or LGB history.

Absolutely none at all . I am sure YOU can tell him what Stonewall was formed for and correct his thinking though.

‘This dude’ IS an important part of LGB history - he was one of the original founders of Stonewall. Didn’t you read the article?

Sounds like this dude needs a history lesson about the LGBT community. Rather ironic really. Bigotry will not divide true LGBT+ solidarity. Respect, Equality and Love wins over hate - every time.

I suspect the BBC is also helping turn the tide with their relentless trans articles. I suspect they are no longer helping the cause as much as the BBC think they are.

I have seen a sea change in the reaction to my comments. At first, I got a mixture of incredulity - people flatly refused to believe what was happening - and of "Well, you feminists brought this on yourselves". That has totally changed. Times commentators now take the threat to women's rights very seriously. GC articles get 100s of comments that are overwhelmingly supportive.

It's so heartening to see that GC journalists and commentators can change views. I think we are still a long way from the tide turning, tbh, but we are making progress. It's true that the Times is not read by the young and woke, but it is read by people in power.

@FannyCann

I've just posted a very innocuous comment suggesting readers search out #DontSubmitToStonewall for more information about the diversity champions programme. Deleted!

Perfectly sensible and innocuous comments too

From reading a comment Parris has made to Jo Phoenix (she's commented and her posts are now at the top of the comments) he was scared of speaking out because it's all so "delicate".

I do think that there's a massive change happening and am heartened by so many thoughtful comments on there.

More sunlight but as you can see from the excerpt below, Parris is still talking about a historic version of trans that hasn't been the case for years:

There’s something perversely 20th-century about linking gays to trans. Gay men do not want to be women. We like being men. I doubt that being a lesbian is about not wanting to be a woman. Our issues have nothing to do with identification or changing our bodies: we know what we are and nobody disputes it. Most gay men would strongly resist the suggestion we’re boys who want to be girls. I can’t think of anything I’d like less. The whole history of the gay liberation movement is inseparable from what people do rather than what they are.

One reason why the gender identity ideology is now so contentious is because many (the majority of?) transwomen also have no interest in changing their bodies. They are content with them as they are. What they want is validation of their feminine gender identity in the form of receiving an all-areas pass and never hearing the word "no" from a woman.

I wonder whether Parris isn't aware of the current issues or is, but uses the antiquated situation to provide a simpler context within which to put forward his views. As we know, when you try to explain what's going on in factual terms providing enough information for a reader to understand, in no time at all you're on your way to writing a book.

I take it back. Success. So many comments it's impossible to keep up. Derail but has the excellent Jo March changed her posting name to Josephine March?

You can c&p the sharetoken link elsewhere, I think.

A while ago I commented that Parris hadn't yet quite seen the light, but was becoming aware of the darkness - he seems at least to be a bit further along now.

It's so good to see all those really articulate and considered comments out in the public (albeit paywalled) domain, as a calm counterbalance to all the accusations of 'spreading hate' and the bigotry narrative that has been effective in shutting down discussion for so long.

It gives me hope that Twitter, the so-called 'public square' for discussion, will soon become as empty and unappealing as a 1960s shopping precinct.

The vast majority of those comments are highly critical of Stonewall and of Gender Ideology.

Good to see.

Have you noticed, the statement TWAT has been around for 3 years , yet it's still something woman refuse to accept?
During lockdown they seem to have dropped it as a shouting point, because it is so easy to disprove.
Maybe we need a counter claim that is true, DNAF. DNA female...

I've just posted a very innocuous comment suggesting readers search out #DontSubmitToStonewall for more information about the diversity champions programme. Deleted!

I really don't want to agree with him after his racist rant the other week.

Ah yes, being photographed suppporting Period Poverty charities comes to mind.