Government says it is too complex to make changes to the GRA to include non binary

It's not "all of the trans umbrella".

It's ALL MALES. Whether they are trans or not is irrelevant.

Female spaces are for female people.

This.

That is not to say I do not think post op transsexuals with a GRC should not be permitted to share womens spaces as has always been done with consent

I’m not sure if you’ve just not seen my posts, but I will say again that this just is not so. Sports, for example. Communal changing rooms. Prisons. Hospital wards. These spaces have been single sex, and women wish them to continue to be so.

AAnd for this spaces that have been open to transsexuals, which is pretty much only toilets, I did not consent.

It's ALL MALES. Whether they are trans or not is irrelevant.

Female spaces are for female people.

You need another solution. Third spaces are it.

And in the meantime?

That doesn't make them women and it doesn't mean that at-risk males should be able to seek refuge in female-only spaces instead.

You need another solution. Third spaces are it.

And the intrusion of males into our spaces has caused us harm, so now we need to enforce that boundary.

And the solution therefore is to push transexuals back into male spaces, and ignore the repercussions?

Why is the dividing line done to exclude transsexuals? Why does it have to be "all the trans umbrella" or "none of the trans umbrella"?

That is not to say I do not think post op transsexuals with a GRC should not be permitted to share womens spaces as has always been done with consent. Quite how this is workable is another matter but the principle stands.

You did not have our consent. We were never asked.

The presumption was that we wouldn't notice. And that if we did notice we wouldn't mind as 'post-op' males were harmless. But we never gave our consent to sharing intimate spaces for females-only with males. And the intrusion of males into our spaces has caused us harm, so now we need to enforce that boundary.

No, you do not face the same problems as people who are female. Male transsexuals are not the same as females.

You dont think a transsexual in a male space is sexualised, at risk of abuse and rape?

What do you see the difference as ?

For the record, I do not consent to any males in women's single sex spaces.

It has not been done "with consent". When were most women asked for their consent then? I must have missed that.

Women's spaces are not there to mop up all the male-sexed people who experience hostility from toxic masculinity in men's spaces, our needs are different from yours.

What is the thought process that leads you from "a transsexual faces the same problem a woman would have in a man's space" to "therefore women's spaces should be open to anyone who wants to enter them and effectively become men's spaces?"

I have no such thought process and have never said such I thing. I do not beleive womens spaces should be open to anyone and accept the dangers associated with the current mess.

That is not to say I do not think post op transsexuals with a GRC should not be permitted to share womens spaces as has always been done with consent. Quite how this is workable is another matter but the principle stands.

Simply because a transsexual faces the same problem a woman would have in a man's space.

Women aren't human shields for vulnerable males. Hence the reasonable suggestion of a third space.

Simply because a transsexual faces the same problem a woman would have in a man's space.

What are these problems? Would any other males also face these problems? Such as those who are disabled or gay or very young for example?

No they don't though.

In the uk trans people are the safest demographic. 2 women are killed a week. Upped to 3 in lock down..

*Whilst waiting for these third spaces where would you like my to use? Am I to use the mens if a third space isn't available?

Why is this so unreasonable?*

Simply because a transsexual faces the same problem a woman would have in a man's space.

The only people you have to blame for this are Stonewall, Press for Change & the other organisations who pushed for all transpeople to be viewed in the same way and ‘acceptance without exception’.

Yeah, I didn't really think about this until a couple of years ago. I certainly couldn't understand why the Americans were getting heated about 'bathroom bills'. I thought they were being ridiculous.

But after I started getting forms and surveys asking about 'gender assigned at birth' and telling me I was a 'cis' woman, I started to look into everything more carefully and think a bit more deeply about the issues.

Unfortunately, I didn't draw the conclusions that Stonewall wanted me to draw.

Neither of those factors means that someone will pass as female. A woman who sees a male in her toilets / changing room doesn’t know their surgical or legal status & obviously has no way of checking. She doesn’t know their bona fides. She simply knows that she’s seeing someone male.

The only people you have to blame for this are Stonewall, Press for Change & the other organisations who pushed for all transpeople to be viewed in the same way and ‘acceptance without exception’.

Who do you propose to let use these spaces? Is it just a dumping ground for anyone who is not a woman that can't or won't use a man's space? So all the transvestites and transsexuals get thrown in together? As long as they're away from women that's all that matters?

Everyone can use them. Women who don't mind sharing with men or want to show support for trans people. Men. Transsexuals. Women who don't want to wait in the queue for the women's toilet. That's the whole point. They're for everyone.

Whilst waiting for these third spaces where would you like my to use? Am I to use the mens if a third space isn't available?

Why is this so unreasonable?

I actually think in some circumstances mixed sex is not the way to go.

I think some people need saving from themselves at times.

Anywhere where there are children, or vulnerable people who don't necessarily have full capacity and many young people tbh, placing them.in a position where they have to choose between their own safety and their identity puts them.at risk.

A refuge would be a prime example. Even openly mixed sex. Many people who end up in a refuge/shelter, well who knows what could have happened to them. Boundaries, self worth, etc all.messed up. Choosing to use mixed sex spaces might actually be dangerous for them.

Back to toilets again. Massively frustrating. This can be easily resolved with male and female single sex, and mixed sex wherever possible. Done.

That doesn’t take us any further forward on sports, prisons, refuges, clubs...

I really don’t want to get into a debate over what sanitary bins are for, because that is unlikely to be edifying for anyone involved.