Drag and misogyny

Thanks Eresh. That is weird.

reading a magazine called Jackie so probably a ‘women’s’ magazine

It was a magazine for teenage girls in the 70s/80s. So a bit bizarre.

Serving, cleaning, ironing.... nope, no negative stereotypes being perpetuated there.

I wouldn't say he hates women, I don't have that information. I don't think he's particularly smashing stereotypes though.

Well in the first few seconds that performer is pouring a man coffee, while not sitting down sharing a meal or anything, so ‘waiting’ on a man, reading a magazine called Jackie so probably a ‘women’s’ magazine and ironing. And at the end shows a man pouring them wine while giving them the cold shoulder.

Frankly all I see portrayed here is the perpetuation of unhealthy relationships. And I don’t see anything inspirational in it at all.

Certainly it is not really fighting negative stereotypes, it is just showing oneupmanship. A positive ending would have been a happy relationship with both people sharing roles.

So, no. Just more of the same really.

[quote greatauntfanny]Out of interest, to those of you who feel drag is inherently a misogynistic mockery of women, when you watch this video, do you think, "disgusting, there is a man who hates women perpetuating negative stereotypes"?

m.youtube.com/watch?v=mSmiC8G4cxE[/quote]
I think “oh, another music video which depicts women as housewives or whores with the added insult of the person reinforcing this stereotype being of the oppressive male class”

Out of interest, to those of you who feel drag is inherently a misogynistic mockery of women, when you watch this video, do you think, "disgusting, there is a man who hates women perpetuating negative stereotypes"?

m.youtube.com/watch?v=mSmiC8G4cxE

Agree - I would really like to understand what that poster meant by ‘aspirational’.

I think I originally used the word aspirational and they were just quoting it back to me. They seemed to be using the fact that drag artists aren't saying women should want to be like them as a justification for them.

Agree - I would really like to understand what that poster meant by ‘aspirational’.

The word is sometimes used to refer to the celebration of aspirations. These days, though, it's often used as a vague, semantically nebulous generic term for "a good thing".

the classifying of the women in them as either buxom young things or uptight and humourless harridans

Yes. And of course, drag sticks to these two jaded, ubiquitous stereotypes, too. The bling tart and the hideous old bag.

It's unimaginative and offensive, of course. It isn't even original, as most/all misogynist and patriarchal cultures readily attempt to sort women into these simple boxes. The religious 'virgin or whore' dichotomy, for example.

Especially as she also said ’no women is meant to watch drag and wish she looked like a 6ft bloke in a blond wig and lipstick’.

Let's stick to people taking the piss out of disabled people maybe as the analogy to try and explain. See how that works.

I'm disabled and comfy with that.

No but they dress up to mock black people. Drag queens do it to mock the abuse they get for being effeminate

By punching down at women, but carry on...

cultural appropriation

It isn’t cultural appropriation, obviously, but it is appropriation.

Aspirational? That seems like an odd word to use within this context

I’ve been to many drag shows and they are most often aspirational or tributes not derogatory.

I am sure that in the past people parodying disabled people might have claimed to be bringing the problems faced by the disabled to the fore. However, we know better now. There is no tribute to women when a man is using a parody of womanhood to hit back at other men.

Yeeesssss

But they will probably need to be aware (and presumably are aware) that expressing that view will

Lead into a massive diversion about what is or isn't female culture
Lead into a massive diversion about whether it's a reasonable term to use for this topic
May well attract criticism that it's insensitive, inappropriate, racist

And so that will probably head the conversation away from drag (the topic) and they won't get a chance to make any other arguments.

I still cannot comprehend how wearing fake boobs can be seen as cultural appropriation so that's a bit of an issue as well. And I suppose the other stuff. Is it women's culture to be (as many drag acts portray), shallow, bitchy and promiscuous? I would say. That's not our culture. That's a male view of a type of woman he wants to mock.

And so we go full circle.

I can't imagine there can be many drag performers who think it's misogyny? As surely you wouldn't do it? And I can't imagine it would be that popular!

I think it’s fine for some women to feel and express that this is how they view drag.

Aware performers . Not award performers.

Not at all Nice Gerbil. It was worth me checking back because I then got an answer as to the weird matron thing.

And hey, the question is still not really answered. I am keen to get more thoughts about why the supposed ‘award’ performers are happy to allow their colleagues to spread hate toward women when they are supposedly benefiting from the growth of the genre due to it continuing.

Why should we not consider them complicit?

Helleofabore

Sorry of course. I was being a bit dim!

Incidentally there did used to be a fair few women who supported f4j and in fact when it comes to issues men raise there are always women supporting them even if it goes against their own interests so that bit doesn't work anyway.

Interestingly, the same poster also posted this:

If they want to dress as comically slutty women whose boobs keep bouncing fully out of their clothes and who keep having to pause their act to 'give birth' and then throw the baby into the audience because it's 'another black one' then... ok yes that particular example is very offensive but it's A) an extreme example and not representative of drag as a whole and B) one of the funniest things I've ever seen. The sort of 'funny because it's so offensive' humour that would go down like a lead balloon on here.

So, they find a drag queen dressed in a particular stereotyped style, pausing their act to deliver a baby and throw it into the audience as ‘just another black one’, was funny. And that MN’ers simply had no sense of humour to appreciate it.

I guess it fits that the reference was used when looking at all their posts again.

I found the reference to the Carry On films by that poster frankly odd while they were arguing that drag is not inherently misogynist. The Carry On films seem to be viewed as 'just good fun' by their fans but the presence of blackface, the classifying of the women in them as either buxom young things or uptight and humourless harridans, and the homophobia doesn't make for comfortable viewing now. Using that reference hardly enhanced their argument.