Drag and misogyny

If jokes about female genitalia are totally off the table that must also go for all jokes about erectile dysfunction, premature ejaculation and small penises. I remember Lily Allen writing a whole song about a man who ejaculates too soon. Is that misandrist?

drag queens don’t claim to be literal women.

Minstrels didn't claim to actually be black, either.

I agree that dresses and makeup do not a woman make. But it's a misogynistic form of 'entertainment' to create an objectified and derogatory stereotype of what you think women are, just as there have been exaggerated stereotypes of black people as 'entertainment'.

I saw these kings a few years ago, it’s not all drag queens even www.pecsdragkings.com/

I didn’t say it was obligatory.

Not all of it is parodying, in fact none of the shows I’ve been to have done that. Should I stop wearing trousers because that’s “menswear”? Why can’t we all wear what we want? I always fight against misogyny but the drag I’ve seen hasn’t been misogynistic, hasn’t used sexist terms, it has shown up sexism and misogyny. I like that, and I like anyone wearing what they want.

How is referring to women's genitals as smelling of fish not derogatory?

The history of drag is not that men did this to parody women. Gay men were bullied and ostracised for being effeminate and drag was a play on that. It wasn’t done to belittle women in the way that blackface was done to mock black people.

Drag to me is like music... it’s a genre of performance or whatever... to write it off completely is as dumb as saying “I don’t like music”.

Hardly it's not obligatory to think it's ground breaking art. It's fine to find men parodying women distasteful and crass.

Every time I hear this argument all I think is that these people obviously think makeup and dresses are inherently female. Drag queens don’t claim to be female.

They are clearly parodying women, to the point that routinely, beards are disguised, penises are tucked and fake breasts are worn. It’s not just clothes and make up.

Yes it's misogynistic.

Really inappropriate to compare to black face seriously.

Not bothered by most drag, only because the shows I’ve been are very gender fluid... agree with pp, dresses and makeup aren’t something I consider “female” at all, anyone can wear what they want and that includes me wearing trousers and not looking “girly”. If anyone uses derogatory terms then yeah not good but I haven’t been to those types of shows.

Drag to me is like music... it’s a genre of performance or whatever... to write it off completely is as dumb as saying “I don’t like music”. I have butch mates and a mate who tried drag kinging so guess I’m less funny about not confirming to gender expectations

I agree that it's not appropriate to conflate it with blackface.

The language used is misogynistic though. I don't particularly care about the clothing, make up etc. I do care about the 'female' stereotypes being portrayed (bitchy, catty, spiteful).

If drag is ‘womanface’ what about butch lesbians dressing in traditionally male clothing and using male names? Is that meant to be mocking men? Would a woman wearing a false moustache for a fancy dress party or for a theatre act be offensive to men?

I agree it is NOTHING like blackface or the minstrel shows and it’s frankly sick to appropriate the suffering and death of millions of Africans to score points in a debate about something so trivial as men wearing what are stereotypically women’s clothes, makeup and accessories.

No and black women have repeatedly asked for people to stop conflating the two.
That’s a fair point. I did it in my previous post, so my apologies to black women offended by this.

@FictionalCharacter’s point stands by itself without needing my conflation.

Makeup and high heels are not inherent to women. Men wearing them aren’t appropriating something that is ours. Drag didn’t originate as a mockery of women as blackface did in respect of black people. It was started by gay men who faced prejudice for being effeminate.

No. When I see young (almost always) gay men dragging up and coming alive I find it hard to knock. They look (and I imagine feel) so comfortable and confident. They're not doing it to mock women. Telling them to stop doing what they love wouldn't cross my mind.

No. It’s just makeup, wigs and padded clothes. Couldn’t care less. Besides we have girls binding and packing and doing male drag all the time now. Let people wear what they want when they want.
Historically men pranced about with lace, high heels, long haired wigs and make up. Nothing wrong with that.

I have always thought this.

The typical drag queen was bitchy, dressed in overtly sexualised clothing, tittering away on death defying heels with a face full of slap and ridiculously long nails.

I just couldn't believe that such an unpleasant, derogatory term was being used to allude to women's body parts and that this was acceptable to laugh and joke about on mainstream TV.

And then IIRC MTF trans people complained about it because the term is transphobic as they don't have the body parts in question, and I think they actually got an apology for being made to feel "othered", even though it was a vile term for a female person, and many women complained and didn't get an apology.

Drag queens are referred to as fishy, for their ‘passing’ ability. It’s so misogynistic.

Yes, it’s an ugly parody of women. “Women - this is you, the way you look, speak and walk is ridiculous and repulsive, let’s all laugh at you”.
Yes, it makes me think of the criticisms to the Minstrel show, the awful portrayal of black men and women as a source of amusement.