Drag and misogyny

So can you envision any circumstances when it would be acceptable in our society for someone to pretend to be disabled and make fun of the disability?

No, I would speak out against it (if having seen it I felt that it was a grotesque parody) just as I'm speaking out against the Tia Kofi one.

That's confusing. If you think drag is in itself misogynistic, why would you think this 'misogynistic' video should exist?

^Because I support free speech and free expression (within the law, obviously).^

So , Shed builder would you support a music video which grotesquely parodied a disabled person?

My question is why Tia Kofi can't be a gay man singing about being in love with a man without having to resort to pretending to be a woman. Do you see how homophobic that is?

I think this is the other side of the disappointing coin that is drag. It could be such a genuinely positive thing if it embraced the fact that stereotypically female characteristics are arbitrary and there's no reason why men can't dress and behave that way in their own right, why deliberately reinforce the opposite?

But does the fact that it's a man in drag change things? Do you view this video differently than if it was performed by a woman?

Yes, because I'd be able to see it as self mocking irony/commentary on sexist stereotypes that affect women (the group we are both members off). Whereas as pp said it adds insult to injury that it's a bloke in an OTT parody of women.

Exactly this👆

That's confusing. If you think drag is in itself misogynistic, why would you think this 'misogynistic' video should exist?

Because I support free speech and free expression (within the law, obviously).

The fact that you can't see it says a lot. My question is why Tia Kofi can't be a gay man singing about being in love with a man without having to resort to pretending to be a woman. Do you see how homophobic that is?

The excellent quote I was responding to was from LolaSmiles

No one has said it shouldn't exist. There you go, putting words into our mouth again.

As in you would exactly feel there same if Tia was a natural woman?

What do you mean by "natural woman"? Tia is a completely male identifying bloke, no? And there's only one kind of woman.

The expectation that we're meant to view women's oppression as creative, cool and edgy when it's a man portraying female oppression doesn't sit with with me.

Quite.

The fact someone can compare the drag in 'I want to break free' to the video I posted and say one is fine but the other isn't is mind-blowing to me. I assume it's because you like Queen so are defending them from your own argument.

I think people have made their points quite clearly, auntfanny. We get it, you love drag and think it's amazing. Other opinions are available.

Tia's video, not the Queen one. Not sure why it has posted after my response. I imagine Queen's was actually quite edgy at the time.

[quote Shedbuilder]I think 'Oh look, another gay man imagining that dressing up as a parody of a 70s housewife and lasciviously polishing cups is edgy.' It's 'Look at me, me, me pretending to be gross stereotypes.' It's insulting because he's not questioning those stereotypes: housewife in the kitchen/ whore in the bedroom.

Contrast it with Queen's I Want to Break Free video, which is not only funny but recognises how trapped so many women have felt over the years in traditional female roles.

I don't think the video "shouldn't exist", despite it being misogynistic. Freedom of speech, and all that.

But does the fact that it's a man in drag change things? Do you view this video differently than if it was performed by a woman?
Yes, because those stereotypes and expectations exist to better service men and men's desires.
The expectation that we're meant to view women's oppression as creative, cool and edgy when it's a man portraying female oppression doesn't sit with with me.

To word it another way, when you see the video, if you dislike it, do you dislike it because of the stereotypes only? As in you would exactly feel there same if Tia was a natural woman? Orr is your dislike exacerbated by the fact Tia is a man?

Do you feel this video should not exist because:

A) Depicts a woman in a subservient role;
B) Is performed by a man so inherently misogynistic even if the roles in the video were reversed;
C) both of the above.

It reminds me of overrated TRA YouTuber Contrapoints and all the wankery in those videos.

But does the fact that it's a man in drag change things? Do you view this video differently than if it was performed by a woman?

Yes, because I'd be able to see it as self mocking irony/commentary on sexist stereotypes that affect women (the group we are both members off). Whereas as pp said it adds insult to injury that it's a bloke in an OTT parody of women.

I think 'Oh look, another gay man imagining that dressing up as a parody of a 70s housewife and lasciviously polishing cups is edgy.' It's 'Look at me, me, me pretending to be gross stereotypes.' It's insulting because he's not questioning those stereotypes: housewife in the kitchen/ whore in the bedroom.

Contrast it with Queen's I Want to Break Free video, which is not only funny but recognises how trapped so many women have felt over the years in traditional female roles.

The content (woman serving tea to man etc.) could be likened to other videos showing women in stereotypical roles/being all over men.

But does the fact that it's a man in drag change things? Do you view this video differently than if it was performed by a woman?

I am biased, by the way, because I think the artist is a brilliant person.

I think “oh, another music video which depicts women as housewives or whores with the added insult of the person reinforcing this stereotype being of the oppressive male class”
I agree. There's just not enough music videos out there that portray women playing wifey for the right man...