Drag and misogyny

*You're talking about the terminology used by some gay men who do drag. That's very different.

If drag queens stopped using the word Fishy tomorrow, would you suddenly be okay with them? Or would you find yet another reason that you dislike them?*

So it's "not all drag artists", is it? That doesn't work for white people about racism, or straight men about misogyny. It's more than enough drag acts to be an endemic problem in the genre.

As to what would make them suddenly ok - if they stopped referring to their characters as women I would have no issue with them.

Is this the internet version of "Don't you know who I am?!

No, it is the internet version of " stop portraying all women who dislike drag in such a flat, one dimensional way. you know nothing about the lives and experiences of the many, many people who post here.

So far, we had gay male oppression explained to us, as if for the first time; and we've been instructed that we are being 'mad' for disliking drag. You'd think you were talking to your 'maiden aunt' - Virgin Bottomley. good drag name, no?

Oh, team tagged! Gaaaaargh! I surrener

Instead, your argument is "Drag is bad". Explain.

Instead, you're saying that drag is bad because a Drag Queen once used the word "fishy".

yeah.... not just one. But nice try at deflection and minimisation.

By the way. ANY performer using that term should be very ashamed of themselves for their overt misogyny.

That's a very masculine way of reading that!

There's no words lol

Note to self - don't read in too masculine a way.

Mumsnet. All about breaking down gender stereotypes.

Oh.. wait.

Yep!

Oooh! What is up with you?

Why is it offensive to you that some of us do actually have a wide variety of friends, are old enough to have seen how various cohorts have changed over decades (and even over a century) and won't back off just because you disagree?

You're talking about the terminology used by some gay men who do drag. That's very different.

If drag queens stopped using the word Fishy tomorrow, would you suddenly be okay with them? Or would you find yet another reason that you dislike them?

How does suggesting that female genitalia is smelly and ugly liberate gay men? It merely plays along with, and encourages foul abuse of women. It's not funny!

Yup.

And how does naming yourself after a 6 year old girl who was murdered or making fun of the utter agony that are miscarriages stick it to the homophobes who mock gay men, exactly?

Instead, you're saying that drag is bad because a Drag Queen once used the word "fishy"

No, I'm saying that quite often drag queens have highly sexualised names that include such offensive words ; and I'm telling you that lots of women really find, and have always found, most drag to be very distasteful, as too often it relies on perpetuating ugly images of women, their bodies and their sexuality.

Yes, because when they are in drag it is a character.
Just like in acting, whether on the stage or on your telly.
They're not saying they actually are a woman.

No they are just choosing to adopt a parody version of an oppressed group to hit back at other men . Typical bully behaviour someone picks on you, so rather than fight them because you might lose, you pick on a person weaker than you and humiliate them instead.

You're not talking about drag. Well, we are!

You're talking about specific terms that are used by people in the gay community. Find them offensive? Fine. Talk about them. People will probably agree. I'd never assume the gay community speaks about women like that. Mainly because half of it is female! Or is that your own bias again?

Instead, you're saying that drag is bad because a Drag Queen once used the word "fishy". Erm, it's a staple of drag. Has been around for decades. And is indicative of the general tone.

That's nonsense. Well, you said it!

Is that ... a threat?

I'm not sure how you managed to interpret it in that way?

You seem to think you are talking to this 'mumsy' population that has never been to a drag show, never been around the gay scene, and who, somehow, have led these very sheltered lives.

Fishy is a common word used within the drag community and is insulting in the extreme to woman.

You can minimise that all you like. It doesn't make it less true.

Can you tell us another one? Do you have time?

The only drag queen I know on a personal level is a straight male. I am not keen as some of his drag persona is his own and his act gives him free rein to vent it all.

I have often thought to pity his wife and kids (1 daughter).

You're talking about specific terms that are used by people in the gay community. Find them offensive? Fine. Talk about them. People will probably agree.

Instead, you're saying that drag is bad because a Drag Queen once used the word "fishy".

That's nonsense.

Mumsnet. All about breaking down gender stereotypes

You don't break down gender stereotypes by playing on really demeaning negative portrayals of women and their sexuality for entertainment.

*Mumsnet. All about breaking down gender stereotypes.

Oh.. wait.*

Jesus, all this deflection to avoid addressing how women actually feel about gay men calling themselves women and portraying cruel, stereotypical views of them. It's almost like you don't want to focus on that bit...

I want to dispute the assumption that all drag queens are gay men. I think there are a significant number of straight men.

That might have been the point we have been making .. for years!!!

Note I said 'masculine' not 'male'.

Yet again - not a Gotcha!

Your argument is that "all drag is misogynistic"

Not necessarily, just most of what we have seen.

'Slag', 'whore', 'slapper' and so on are not words which women find neutral or inoffensive. They hurt deeply and are an expression of male contempt.

How does suggesting that female genitalia is smelly and ugly liberate gay men? It merely plays along with, and encourages foul abuse of women. It's not funny!

Oh.. wait.

I don't think you are aware of who you are talking to

Some random person on the internet, perhaps?

It's been enlightening to read the experiences of lesbians and how they have been treated within/by the drag scene. It's given another viewpoint into the obvious misogyny and distaste/mockery of women.