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Original poster

Have to fill out an equalities form as ‘cis woman’ and not happy!

84 replies

Rejoiningperson · 20/05/2021 15:13

I’ve just applied for a temporary job that I really want. However I am pretty cross that at the end of the form, the Equalities Monitoring Form has only one box I can tick, and I don’t agree with any of them. I’m pretty cross as their form means that they really have no idea whether women are being represented in their organisation or not. It says:

Are you:

Male (including both cis men and trans men)
Women (including both cis women and trans women)
Non Binary
Other

I’m a bit big on the accuracy of data, as this used to be part of my job. This equalities form breaks equality law doesn’t it? There might as well not be a question here. For example at the end of the year they could say that 80% of their organisation are women - but they could actually be men identifying as women. Crazy!

I want to leave the question blank. I do not identify as a cis woman. Or a trans woman. And circling it means nothing at all. As a woman I’m invisible.

OP posts:
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Original poster
Rejoiningperson · 22/05/2021 18:32

@SudokuMania I like the sound of underfong Smile

I am very determined to get this job now!

OP posts:
SudokuMania · 22/05/2021 18:00

Perhaps we should all start ticking 'other' then writing some gibberish for them to collate. Gender - Other: yachtful / underfong / legolike etc.

Disfordarkchocolate · 22/05/2021 17:54

I tick other and if it asks me I say woman. Or adult human female if I'm feeling bolshy.

Original poster
Rejoiningperson · 22/05/2021 17:51

@2old4thissite yes you know until you and some others pointed it out, I hadn’t even noticed. Someone probably did change it as an after thought. Also, I actually had no idea who ‘cis woman’ was supposed to mean until I looked at a few mumsnet boards. I don’t really want to know what other people, who are not my identity, have dreamt up my identity for me. I don’t make up words for trans women and put it on equalities forms to make them sign. Ridiculous. Also, I shouldn’t have to look up a word on an equalities form - the whole point is that it identifies what a group identifies for itself. As a woman I see no space to identify myself in any way.

Anyway, the clown fish is the group I feel most identifiable with at present! Perhaps we should all put that after ‘other’ on every single form. Smile I wonder how much discrimination I would face if I did that.

OP posts:
Original poster
Rejoiningperson · 22/05/2021 17:45

I’ve got it!

I will tick ‘Other’ and put ‘Honey Cis’ Grin

OP posts:
2old4thissite · 22/05/2021 14:52

Op, if you have written it accurately, it seems to say:
Are you Male.../woman..
Surely it should either be are you Male.../female..or
are you a man../woman..
I must admit I've never seen that last option on a form. My guess is that they started off with 'male/female' but someone said 'what about transwomen' so they changed that, but didn't change the 'Male's to man cos no-one is bothered about tranmen!

2old4thissite · 22/05/2021 14:37

pumpkinspice
I would object to being called 'cis' on a womens rights board, almost as much as being called 'honey' yuk.
Anyway if it's about how you identify she is not cis because that's not how she wishes to describe herself. It's not about what YOU think.
Hope that helps

PumpkinSpiceWoman · 22/05/2021 14:16

@MrsTerryPratchett

Women (including both cis women and trans women)

Imagine a Venn diagram. Big circle of Women. Inside that, two smaller circles of cis (those who choose to use that word) and trans. You are inside the big circle and outside the two smaller ones.

No, honey. She's cis.
Original poster
Rejoiningperson · 22/05/2021 01:23

Ironically the job I’m applying for requires a good level of research and data knowledge. Wink

The question doesn’t monitor anything and so is totally useless. It doesn’t monitor trans genders or other genders.

It certainly doesn’t monitor how many female sex apply and get the job compared to males. Which is a shame as it’s heavily male dominated!

OP posts:
NiceGerbil · 21/05/2021 15:00

Why should she be required to share such a sensitive piece of info?
Why is there no prefer not to say option?
There's is with sexuality and ethnicity on the forms I've seen.

MarshaBradyo · 21/05/2021 14:52

@notatallsure313

You don't need to complete equalities forms.

You are right that they should not have attached it to the application.

Regardless of views on the trans/ GC debate, this is a poorly designed form. People like you, who regard gender as a social construct rather than an inner state, have no way to answer this form.
Its trying to force you to answer according to a belief system you do not share. That means the response options are not exhaustive.

They don't know much about equality monitoring or survey design tbh.

It seems rife atm

And I agree it’s forcing a system that a large amount of women do not agree with

Quaggars · 21/05/2021 14:50

@NiceGerbil

It's asking her what get gender identity is though, isn't it?

Not her sex. So if she is one because she's female that's not what they're looking for at all. They want to know how she identifies internally. Totally different.

So if it is gender they're wanting then, and she doesn't identify as a woman, surely could tick the box that says other
NiceGerbil · 21/05/2021 14:47

It's asking her what get gender identity is though, isn't it?

Not her sex. So if she is one because she's female that's not what they're looking for at all. They want to know how she identifies internally. Totally different.

MintyCedric · 21/05/2021 11:07

I had to fill out a similar form yesterday. Options were:

Woman
Man
Trans Woman
Trans Man
Other

Seems sensible...but I wonder how long it will take a trans applicant to throw their toys out of their pram for being othered

EyesOpening · 21/05/2021 10:54

@FannyCann

Anyway why is it

Male (including both cis men and trans men)
Women (including both cis women and trans women)

Surely that should be Male (albeit including a category of non men) or Female (albeit with category of non women)

Not Male or Women ?
And even if a person's pronouns are "they/them" they will still only be one woman (cis or trans). As in woman not women.

These monitoring forms are meant to be anonymous anyway so I'd either leave it blank or if it's online and demand a tick then go for other. You can't possibly be women however you identify (if you identify!). Confused

Yes, male and women is an odd pairing! I would be torn between ticking the woman and the other but I think I wouldn’t mark my card before I got the job, but try and challenge it afterwards. Could you maybe get someone else to email them about the form?
notatallsure313 · 21/05/2021 10:45

You don't need to complete equalities forms.

You are right that they should not have attached it to the application.

Regardless of views on the trans/ GC debate, this is a poorly designed form. People like you, who regard gender as a social construct rather than an inner state, have no way to answer this form.
Its trying to force you to answer according to a belief system you do not share. That means the response options are not exhaustive.

They don't know much about equality monitoring or survey design tbh.

Quaggars · 21/05/2021 10:40

Well, assuming you are a woman as your OP certainly implies that you are with that being the box you're not sure what to put on and are cross about

Quaggars · 21/05/2021 10:38

@Bellybootcut

Tick women. That includes you doesn't it?
This. It says woman. Which you are, so you tick that one.
Pyewackect · 21/05/2021 09:52

@Skinnytailedsquirrel

I would tick other. A percentage of women have no idea what this bloody "cis" thing is. Play the game and tick other as you are a woman.
Including me. I had to Google it. .
JellySlice · 21/05/2021 09:47

Trans ideology and trans wellbeing are totally unrelated. If the ideologues were truly invested in the well-being, safeguarding and healthcare of trans people they would insist on accurate language and data.

rabbitwoman · 21/05/2021 06:52

Is it just me who can see how important it is that trans women and men maintain their statistical integrity? That lumping trans women and women together in one catagory does not help them - it makes them invisible!!

For instance - take the often made claim that trans women are being murdered at an alarming rate. Well, not according to the statistics. So either, these poor murdered souls are being recorded as men, and counted as murdered men statistically, or they are being recorded as women and counted as women statistically. They've disappeared.....

The census was going to be used to allocate funding to different parts of the country depending on who needed it. So - 500 trans women in my area, for instance. But they all insist on putting 'woman' on their census - so, no trans health care for my area, but extra funding for maternity care and breast cancer screening, thanks!

NiceGerbil · 20/05/2021 22:51

I mean by your approach you just have maybe

Woman
Man
Non binary
Other

It says gender so trans people will know what to select.

It gives no insight into whether the company is attracting trans applicants though which is a major weakness.

Why push for trans people to be hidden like this?

NiceGerbil · 20/05/2021 22:48

Then in loads of things why is data on trans status gathered?

It's unnecessary surely?

Personally I think that collecting data on the trans population is important to understand the particular issues faced and work to improve their lives.

I'm a bit sad that you don't feel that way.

transinclusionist · 20/05/2021 22:39

It probably said that to clarify that trans women are women Smile

NecessaryScene1 · 20/05/2021 22:04

For a job application, not wanting to risk your chances, just tick non-binary. That will boost your chances, I assume.

And it's accurate enough. You don't identify as cis or trans.