Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

JIgsaw PHSE materials - I have details

35 replies

SolvingtheJigsaw · 19/05/2021 10:43

I have had a few emails back and forth with my school and I have some details of the transgender lesson that is taught. Details to follow in the next few posts.

OP posts:
New posts on this thread. Refresh page
YoureAllABunchOfBastards · 20/05/2021 17:32

@StellaAndCrow

I hope they give as much time to all the other protected characteristics and potential "differences". It would be nice to see as much resource being put into supporting e.g. children with disabilities, autism, learning disability, hearing difficulties etc etc etc
I don't know about primary school, but in KS3 and KS4 the protected characteristics are revisited and taught every year, with a variety of focuses - so, my Y10s have recently looked at age discrimination, for example
AfternoonToffee · 20/05/2021 17:25

It's not exactly a ringing endorsement when the best that can be said is "well, I suppose it could be worse." Grin

BiggerBoat1 · 20/05/2021 16:54

Doesn't sound like the most inspiring lesson. but good that they are being taught this. I'm sure teachers will make it more interesting/relevant to their own cohort of children.

FannyCann · 20/05/2021 16:48

God I pity the kids. I can't imagine a more boring lesson. I suppose a whole hour with whoever is in charge of waste disposal at the hospital as part of induction week "you put this in an orange bag and that in a black bag and make a swan neck for the tie like this" is up there. I'd rather sit through the rubbish sorting talk tbh.

And I'd rather my children (who thankfully are out of school now and just missed this) got taught something more enriching.

SolvingtheJigsaw · 20/05/2021 16:07

My opinion is that it could be much worse. I was dreading, when seeing that the lesson was about discrimination and the Equalities Act, that it would be giving the unequivocal message single sex spaces should be available to those of the opposite sex who identify as trans.

I think using an adult is less of an issue when introducing transgender identity than using a child example.

However - Robert/Roberta is newsworthy really only as the first British male to female transexual. I am a little worried that introducing the name to children who might then google the name is facilitating their knowledge of such surgery without making sure the children know it does not actually change the sex of the person.

OP posts:
RandomDent · 19/05/2021 22:41

The rights and responsibilities usually relate to the UN convention on the rights of the child. If they’ve been doing Jigsaw for a while then they’ll know about this. So they might just refer back to those rights/responsibilities.
I feel sorry for everyone in this situation! I think Jigsaw has done what it can to refer to transgender people in a way that primary children can just about understand.

ValancyRedfern · 19/05/2021 20:11

Thanks OP. I have responded to dd's school consultation relating to jigsaw pshe. I knew some of the contents of this lesson but not all. I think the focus on fair treatment is, well, fair, but the children are going to be confused by the content. I teach secondary and my students (not of the woke variety) are very confused by the whole sex/gender thing. I try to explain as best I can but am always looking over my shoulder in case I say something heretical.

AfternoonToffee · 19/05/2021 19:53

I need to look at this properly (just skimmed so far) school have sent the PHSE consultation through so I will use this info in forming my reply.

The school has over 40% of pupils who English is not their first language, so race would be much more relevant.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 19/05/2021 18:09

@StellaAndCrow

I hope they give as much time to all the other protected characteristics and potential "differences". It would be nice to see as much resource being put into supporting e.g. children with disabilities, autism, learning disability, hearing difficulties etc etc etc
This ^^^ OP.
SolvingtheJigsaw · 19/05/2021 18:03

I can only guess at what bit of Robert/Roberta's story is actually relevant. Maybe having to give up motor racing? I hope the children are rightly enraged that women weren't allowed to do that but that doesn't seem to be a feature of the lesson.

But in each of the top 3/4 google hits on either Robert or Roberta the main points that stick out are:

Robert had experimental surgery, by a surgeon who had also had experimental surgery (and I don't think details of the surgery are appropriate).
Robert denied he had children so that he could claim he was intersex and hence change his birth certificate.
Roberta's later life is not portrayed as happy.

It strikes me as a bit odd altogether. It isn't really a lesson on 'what is transgender' because as mentioned above it misses out a quite crucial part which is that it is not possible to change sex. And if it is a lesson on Equalities it is odd to choose gender identity as a protected characteristic, because for the vast majority of children sex/race/disability would be much more relevant.

OP posts:
Whatwouldscullydo · 19/05/2021 15:21

I'm.not sure why it's a good example fir children. It's literally telling telling that the impact on families is nothing important and all that matters is how kind people are to the person and that they are happy.

Lougle · 19/05/2021 15:09

Roberta Cowell said she had XX male syndrome. However she also had 2 children, and all people with XX male syndrome are sterile.

Whatwouldscullydo · 19/05/2021 14:48

Sorry Roberta Cowell befire I'm jumped on fir dead naming or whatever

Whatwouldscullydo · 19/05/2021 14:47

Robert Cowell, isn't that the one who lied about having children to back up the claim of being intersex so the dr would do the surgery?

The lesson plan is awful tbh

Don't suppose they mention how the children that were denied felt?

FrancesGumm · 19/05/2021 14:38

This is interesting OP.
I have just emailed my DD’s primary school today as apparently last week there was a meeting with some specially invited parents (not me) to discuss the new Sex Education classes . I’ve asked for detailed lesson plans and who the outside agencies involved are.
My email has been forwarded and I am to await a reply ……

ArabellaScott · 19/05/2021 14:13

'be kind' just gets eyerolls from my kids, now. The school bang on about it relentlessly, but don't actually step in and stop bullying, so they recognise it as bullshit lip-service.

ArabellaScott · 19/05/2021 14:12

Some transgender people take a medicine called a hormone blocker'

Strictly speaking, don't they take a medecine used for cancer treatment and use it to stop puberty happening, or they take artificial hormones.

Is this accurate?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/05/2021 14:12

The emphasis on fairness is clever. Kids often don't care about being kind, but they do care about being fair.

I agree.

JoyousAsOtters · 19/05/2021 14:06

I'm interested to know what answers children usually come up with to this section:

Starting with 'Rights', ask each group to list three rights that are important in a welcoming community. Ask each group to write these on one side of the paper. Once the children have finished, they need to pass their list to a different group. This group now lists a corresponding 'Responsibility' for each of the 'Rights'. Prompt the children with one or two examples if needed.

Any primary teachers on here used this material? I'd say that the types of responses elicited here would give a good indication of what the children have absorbed about fairness and rights, and how they think it relates to gender, or indeed their reactions to the idea that someone might feel they are female but be born in a male body. Also think that's a bit close to the now proscribed 'born in the wrong body' rhetoric isn't it? My kids' school also uses these resources and I am keen to know more.

StellaAndCrow · 19/05/2021 11:45

I hope they give as much time to all the other protected characteristics and potential "differences". It would be nice to see as much resource being put into supporting e.g. children with disabilities, autism, learning disability, hearing difficulties etc etc etc

SolvingtheJigsaw · 19/05/2021 11:44

Are there any primary school teachers who can shed any light on how your normally pick 'historical figures' (for want of a better word)? How much 'are they safe to google' checking do you do?

One click from the Wikipedia entry on Robert/Roberta and you get to phalloplasty and vaginoplasty which I am not certain is appropriate, certainly for younger children (and the Jigsaw materials have this as a Yr 6 lesson but can be given earlier if eg there is a transgender child in a particulr class).

OP posts:
SolvingtheJigsaw · 19/05/2021 11:32

Sorry for typos.

Also missed the objectives which are obviously important. These are:

I understand there are different perceptions about what normal means.
I can empathise with people who are different.
I understand how being different could affect someone's life.
I am aware of my attitude towards people who are different.
I can explain some of the ways in which one person or a group can have power over another.
I know how it can feel to be excluded or treated badly by being different in some way.

OP posts:
OvaHere · 19/05/2021 11:28

What's glaringly missing from this is making sure that young children don't mistakenly think people can actually become the opposite sex just because they feel a certain way.

SolvingtheJigsaw · 19/05/2021 11:23

More on the 'notes'

Suggested answers to questions about transitioning might be:
'That's a very good question but there isn't a simple answer. Different transgender people transition in different ways, it's very personal to them. Our lesson today is about how we treat transgender people so let's think about that a bit more'.

'Some transgender people take a medicine called a hormone blocker' (This avoids the need to explain that some transgender people also choose surgery which may not be age and stage appropriate for some children).

For further support please see the jigsaw website www.jigsawpshe.com (A-Z articles LGBT+) [I have tried to find this but can't - it may be in a log in only part of the website].

There are many organisations online that can offer support for schools on trans issues. These can be accessed through an appropriate online search.

Ensure that the Jigsaw Charter is reinforced particularly if you are aware of a child in your school or class who has been identified as trans, or has a trans family member, to ensure they feel comfortable within the lesson. You should discuss this lesson with the children/caerer beforehand to ensure they are happy to be involved.

[Info about needing to maintain privacy in certain situations].

END

OP posts:
SolvingtheJigsaw · 19/05/2021 11:16

Then a 'Notes' section

Some children may have questions about the physical process of transitioning. Care should be given so that answers to their questions are answered in an age and stage appropriate way. The anonymous question box may be a helpful strategy here [explains the strategy which involves answering later]. This gives the teacher time to think of appropriate responses and avoids being 'on the spot' in this lesson.

The focus of this lesson is also not on the transitioning process: instead it is about understanding transgender rights and our responsibilities to transgender people as part of society. As such, try to keep the lesson 'on this track'.

OP posts:
Swipe left for the next trending thread