More celebrities coming out as non-binary

The phrase 'call out' can fuck off too.

Again, Lovato emphasized that she's open to working with the frozen yogurt shop "to help align the messaging to where I feel safe going in there and I can eat the froyo that I went there for

Why would a business want advice from someone who had to have the fact that people have actual medical problems and allergies explained to them.
I think the Froyo thing showed the arrogance of someone who couldn’t get their mind round the fact other people might not want sugar for their own reasons. The fact that the only reason DL could come up with that sugar free yoghurt was sold was to encourage EDs seems like someone who can’t think outside their own experience.

A lot of the girls I teach are fans so I suspect this will come up in school. I feel so sad every time another woman rejects womanhood.

And the 3rd to last section on the R4 6 o'clock news (before the sections on cafes in Paris, and Roald Dahl's letters). I don't get why it's so newsworthy?

I heard the PM interview and am still no clearer about how ‘they’ people are different from anyone else. Surely many (most) people aren’t 100% comfortable with the gender stereotypes that match their sex?

Yah the froyo thing could be on The Onion, it's that ridiculous.

I think Lovato is trying to leverage Lovato's eating disorder as a sort of crusade/hashtag warrior calling card. But it doesn't work when you use your massive public platform to try to shame a froyo shop. It would be better directed at the massive US junk food lobby IMO. Except that would require actual work.

Evan Davis will be examining this on PM (Radio 4) in a bit (the programme is on now).
I'm hoping ED looks objectively at the issues involved

I don't understand. I don't think I have ever woken up and thought about my gender really.

Unless I have raging PMT/ hideous period I feel quite angry with my woman body then.

But i just don't understand this non binary. Are we supposed to feel some mystical thing.

I immediately thought of the the fact that Demi Lovato has a long history of eating disorders, drug addiction and has also spoken about suffering from sexual abuse - this seems like 'opting out' to me, as others have said.

Also, I find this whole 'coming out' thing kind of offensive. Like, not that long ago, it was a really big thing for a famous person (or anyone) to come out as gay, and certainly in Hollywood, it is still pretty unacceptable. 'Coming out as non-binary' doesn't actually really mean anything, and I feel like it trivialises something genuinely very difficult for gay and lesbian people.

And.... That froyo story - WTAF?! Not feeling 'safe' because there are sugar free options?

One minor mystery is why the convention is always to refer to they/them (rather than just "they") - or are there people who pair the subject pronoun up with a different object pronoun than its usual one? Nothing would surprise me these days - maybe there are people requesting he/her or she/him. It clearly isn't a matter of listing forms exhaustively, or the reflexive "themselves" would need to be included along with the possessive determiner "their".

The English language seems to be widely misunderstood. When people say "I use they/them pronouns", they actually mean "I ask others to use they/them pronouns [when referring to me]".
Everyone uses they/them pronouns (and he/him and she/her). It all depends who we're talking about. And if we're talking about ourselves, we use I/me pronouns.

According to the Guardian: "The pop singer will use the pronouns they and them to describe themselves".

Surely, they'll continue to use I/me to describe themselves, unless they're accustomed to speaking about themselves in the third person? I guess one cannot rule that out.

And "refer to" would be more correct than "describe". Pronouns refer to people or things. Pronouns do not describe. Adjectives describe.

[quote MondayYogurt]Demi Lovato is trying to distract from her recent froyo incident.

Demi Lovato Addresses Backlash to Her Comments About 'Triggering' Visit to Frozen Yogurt Shop

[[https://people.com/health/demi-lovato-addresses-backlash-about-triggering-visit-frozen-yogurt-shop/]][/quote]
Jesus, this froyo story

As someone who was a teenager in the 70s (when we were not only winning the war against the stereotypes of gender, we were celebrating gender non-conformity without suggesting for a second that it meant the person wasn't the sex they were), I went from being wryly amused about the whole promotion of 'non-gender', etc to being feckin' angry that I'm expected to care about these 'special' people.

The idea that you can 'opt out' of your sex - especially if you're a woman - by 'declaring' yourself neither male nor female is RIDICULOUS.

I'm only a tiny bit non-binary. My pronouns are he/them.

What Wintertrees said. I hope DL’s ok.

I've just been reading comments on an Instagram post about Demi in another language. It doesn't have the plural "they" used for a singular ever, so big discussions on how to translate.

And then I remembered Arabic.

In written Arabic you have four options for "they" (in spoken, "just" the last two):

• 2 people or more, both female
• 2 people or more, one male
• 3 people or more, all female
• 3 people or more, one or more male

So not only would you be culturally a little "brave" to attempt to be non-binary in an Arabic speaking culture, pronoun changes are impossible! Also, "You" singular and plural are also defined by sex! 😂 It seems to be to be the solution to this nonsense!

It is a bizarre experience to watch one of these videos when you share a large amounts of views on gender (as the norms, expectations and stereotypes associated with either sex) with the Youtuber in question but see them just falling short of grasping what radfem consider the most important points about this understanding of gender - that it is imposed based on sex and used as a tool of oppression against us in patriarchal societies. And that the female sex can neither escape nor remedy that oppression by cleaving to a masculine gender nor by conforming to the norms, expectations and stereotypes associated with the female sex nor by declaring oneself to be all of that/above all of that as non-binary.

And for the most part it seems to be open conflict between female transsexual individuals who are expressing their internalised misogyny by attacking and ridiculing non-binary female individuals for claiming to be non-binary while being very obviously female (and often quite feminine in appearance) who are in turn declaring the former to be regressive transmedicalists playing into the hands of transphobes by seeking to pass as the other sex.

This has been going on for at least the last five years, but now, at long last, it looks like the non-binary activists have won that fight.

And certainly if you read Material Girl, Kathleen Stock shows that after queer theorists had successfully unmoored gender identity from any and all physiological aspects of sex, this was the inevitable outcome.

What this will mean longterm for the vulnerable individuals for whom the GRA was written in the first place is unclear. But I doubt it will benefit them.

As I'm going out for a long walk with the dog soon, today I am wearing a "boyfriend" style check shirt, combat trousers and hiking trainers.

I never wear nail polish, haven't worn any make up for several months, don't do any "beauty" products besides soap, bicarb and toothpaste, just have my long hair tied up in a messy bun... So if DL calls, um, themself non-binary, yet wears a full face of immaculate stage style make up, what does this make me? I must be well beyond non-binary, pushing into boy territory 😒

Make it make sense. Please! 😱

Of course they are - maximum ass patting and accolades, zero effort.

I've noticed that recently more and more conventionally feminine women are 'coming out' as non binary. I have a prediction. The more non binary becomes associated with femininity, and women, the more it will be openly scorned and rejected as an identity. Dave Chappell, or some other popular male comedian, will make a joke about 'crazy non binary chicks'. Women won't be able to escape sexism by identifying as non binary because the sexism will follow them. And then there will be think pieces like 'we need to talk about problematic non binary females in trans spaces', and the non binary women will be told off or castigated by taking up too much space, or talking or whatever.