More celebrities coming out as non-binary

@BreatheAndFocus that’s actually a really clear perspective on it that I hadn’t considered, thanks!

I don't normally comment on here but am finding myself drawn more into the subject as DS gets closer to teenage years. He came home from Scouts the other night saying that a friend of his there has a sibling who is "non-binary". Another friend of his had described this as not being a boot or a flip-flop but a shoe . DS then said "I wonder what non-binary people look like - short hair and boobs?" to which I replied "what, like me?" which thoroughly confused the situation.

He is not buying any of it having proclaimed back along (under the cover of darkness back in winter) that he needed a pee in the woods and if he could identify as a girl any time he liked, he could certainly identify as a dog for 5 minutes. I had no answer.

I do fear that this is becoming a "trendy" thing and the more airtime is given to celebs on this, the more it will pass to our young people. I'm not sure what the point of me posting is, but I am confused as to how to address this with my DC.

If you say you’re NB, you’re basically saying that the stereotypes are valid and important and dictate to you your label. Chuck the stupid stereotypes and rules, and do what you like!

Being NB is no different than thinking you, a girl, must actually be a boy because you like playing with Hot Wheel cars. The girl in my example has decided she has matched a ‘boy’ thing so must be a boy. The hypothetical NB person has decided she doesn’t match the ‘girl things’, looked at the ‘boy things’ and decided she doesn’t match all those either. Therefore she ‘must’ be NB. Both of them look at stupid, regressive, nonsense stereotypes and use them to place themselves in a stupid box. NB is as much of a box as all the others because it gives importance to f**king daft stereotypes that no-one should give a toss about.

<span class="italic">Nullification: The removal of genital structures with preservation of the urethra to allow for voiding of urine.</span>

How does that work with vaginas then, or is a male-only binary procedure?

There is also a developing trend towards surgery to remove either your male or female sex characteristics to make you "sexless"

<span class="italic">Nullification: The removal of genital structures with preservation of the urethra to allow for voiding of urine.</span>

www.mymarinhealth.org/programs-services/surgery-procedures/surgical-specialties/gender-affirmation-surgery/nonbinary-gender-affirming-surgery/

But essentially: A colourblind society is just as damaging as a racist one, because a colourblind society can never be truly colourblind. So it's essentially a racist one where racism "does not exist" and therefore can never be spoken about, or fixed.

A "colourblind" society and a "genderless" society may be possible, but only after you have fixed the system and the inequalities, and everyone agrees to be genderless and colourless, and genderblind and colourblind. Will that ever happen? Not in my lifetime. And we still have daughters and sons to raise in while we're waiting.

Yes! Your whole post was great, but particularly this.

Also talks about loving scars.

Thai sort of non binary is a different form of self harm.

I've also noticed young women who like to dress up and wear make up seem to have to do it under the guise of being queer and femme. And days they're not they're being queer and masc.

It's impossible to be non binary as any fashion indicators is either stereotypically male or female. So females must make a physical change.

Ergo, continued women hating/ misogyny.

My hygiene was abysmal when I was a trans guy because I thought guys didn’t wash their faces — but I like washing my face, I like having clear skin. Is it a female thing to want to feel comfortable in your own skin? Noticing that cage I was putting myself in helped me get to the place where I am now: I'm non-binary. I don't feel like those things should affect me. I don't want to steal from myself anymore for the sake of upholding this image.

It's still sexist tripe.

Why do people care if there are some individuals who don't wish to identify as female or male?
Because the trend if you are female is to get a mastectomy as apparently the default is a male aesthetic.

Which is more like a child aesthetic if you're a grown woman.

Top surgery scars are the latest version of a tattoo trend.

www.refinery29.com/en-gb/2019/05/234065/lachlan-watson-top-surgery-scar-interview

Great post baaaaal

Why do people care if there are some individuals who don't wish to identify as female or male?

On a personal level it doesn't actually affect anyone. I don't care that a person on the other side of the world doesn't wish to identify as male or female.

But it starts to affect "me" when I need to change my language. Now this person, who I have never met, has effectively taken up a part of my 'memory' because if anyone ever brings them up (I have a daughter, not impossible) I need to remember to refer to them as them.

What if that was 12 people I know, 40 people at work, and 300 celebrities? I'm expected to be conscious of all of that at all times. You could say, lets just start referring to everyone as "they/them".

But they/them is a plural? I'm a novelist and use he/she ALL THE TIME. Names are unnecessarily wordy. "Alison was sitting in Alison's garden with Derek. Alison didn't know what Alison would like to have for dinner. Alison asked Derek what Derek would like."

You can't use "they" in any case because in all cases I am talking about a he or a she. One person. I need the word "they" because "they" as a plural could have been sitting in "their" garden.

And that is a purely practical reason which doesn't touch on what society would look like if we just erased the concept of boys and girls overnight.

Anyone remember the Always #runlikeagirl campaign? How powerful was that? Both of my daughters have watched that, it's such an important piece of media.

And that wouldn't exist. Would never have been created. But that isn't because the need for that clip to be created had been erased. The need would still be there, we just couldn't do anything to highlight it or argue/ campaign against it or raise awareness/ educate on it.

When everyone is a "parent" how do we discuss needs of mothers? Of fathers?

Theoretically it would be great if we "erased" gender. I actually think that is what #runlikeagirl was trying to do - erase the concept and negative stereotypes of running like a girl.

Just like some could argue it would be great if we "erased" the concept of race. "I don't see colour".... "I am race-less". I'm not racist because I don't see colour. But we can't do that. It's incredibly harmful, and there are many articles written explaining why better than I can.

But essentially: A colourblind society is just as damaging as a racist one, because a colourblind society can never be truly colourblind. So it's essentially a racist one where racism "does not exist" and therefore can never be spoken about, or fixed.

A "colourblind" society and a "genderless" society may be possible, but only after you have fixed the system and the inequalities, and everyone agrees to be genderless and colourless, and genderblind and colourblind. Will that ever happen? Not in my lifetime. And we still have daughters and sons to raise in while we're waiting.

Whereas evil terfs say "gender stereotypes are harmful and regressive TO EVERYONE."

Examples here

www.womenarehuman.com/non-binary-identifying-individuals-re-traumatized-by-sex-field-on-health-forms/

Non-binary seems to be an improvement on identifying with gender stereotypes though surely?

For some maybe. Lots of them appear to think they don't actually have a biological sex, or that it isn't ever something which should be acknowledged for anyone.

Non-binary seems to be an improvement on identifying with gender stereotypes though surely? Non-binary at least seems like a step in a positive direction of gender being a construct, anyone who wants to step away from this construct has my understanding. The part that raises red flags for me is identifying with a different gender as I can’t help but wonder what they’re identifying with and whether that is just cementing harmful gender stereotypes further.

What the hell is a non-binary femme?

This, with bells on. I have survived more than one abusive relationship and experienced a lot of gaslighting. I won't be forced to lie about a person's sex because a) having to lie harms ME and b) I don't believe in gender ideology.

Same here, exactly.

4w.pub/non-binary-is-the-new-not-like-other-girls-and-its-deeply-rooted-in-misogyny/

A friend of a friend has come out as "non binary femme" .

Literally nothing has changed about this female individual except the requirement for other people to use they /them pronouns in they's absence.

That is basically saying "I'm a woman, but definitely not one of you lame cis women who love all the abuse, I'm a different, individual, cool woman BUT I STILL BELIEVE IN GENDER ID DON'T CANCEL ME OH POWERFUL ONES"

Gaslighting is really bad for MY mental health, which is exactly what this is. My mental health is equally important as DL's so I'm going to do what is right FOR ME

This, with bells on. I have survived more than one abusive relationship and experienced a lot of gaslighting. I won't be forced to lie about a person's sex because a) having to lie harms ME and b) I don't believe in gender ideology.