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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Guardian article on the cult of the perfect mother

108 replies

ArabellaScott · 18/05/2021 11:22

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/may/18/parent-trap-why-the-cult-of-the-perfect-mother-has-to-end?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other&fbclid=IwAR1sWl3_y6uulvXAeX99eVj8jjdnkuM72FWttwZYDrzGQAsciV22oCsuSlk

Quite a long and interesting article. I definitely don't agree with all of it, but increasingly I think the summation of it is entirely true:

'Motherhood is feminism’s unfinished business.'

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RidingMyBike · 18/05/2021 21:04

Yes, re attachment parenting. I can remember being told repeatedly (by HCPs, extended family and the awful 'natural parenting' magazine I was given a sub to as a present in the early days) that everything had to be on demand and schedules were really bad, which made me absolutely terrified to try and have any routine at all. I was thoroughly miserable, loathing every second, had severe PND from all this pressure and was googling 'putting baby up for adoption' as I plainly wasn't up to the job, when I happened to see a book called 'how to enjoy the first year', bought it, discovered it described a routine like it wasn't absolutely the worst thing you could ever do. And that's what turned everything round, our days took on a rhythm that meant we could all be happy and I actually did start enjoying my baby.

The pressure didn't stop - I'd get comments about using a playpen, or the pram rather than the sling, and the bullying for combi-feeding rather than EBF was awful, but I became more confident and was better able to ignore it.

Nuffaluff · 18/05/2021 20:53

As a ‘maternally ambivalent, good enough mother,’ I really enjoyed this. Thank you.

SmokedDuck · 18/05/2021 20:33

@RidingMyBike

This really resonated when I read it this morning. I encountered so much pressure to have a 'natural' birth (from midwives as well as others), breastfeed, do attachment parenting, co-sleep etc. I was made to feel awful if I didn't do all this I'd be failing my child etc. And it made me so miserable.

It turned out that following my instincts saved my baby's life (my milk didn't come in and she urgently needed formula), having a routine, her sleeping in a separate crib and her own room from six months made for a much happier time for all of us. I felt so much better once I'd increased in confidence and was able to parent my way instead of the way others were trying to force me into.

The attachment parenting thing is interesting. When you look at some of the advice that was given to mothers before, I think where AP was coming from makes a lot more sense. It's basically, respond to your baby's cues, small babies want a lot of touch, and trust your instincts rather than a timer. And a lot of the co-sleeping stuff was driven by the increase in BF, because it just makes a lot more sense when you are BF and ups the chances you will have a good outcome.

But a lot of it makes the most sense when you are talking about very small infants, the 4th trimester. Once they begin to get a bit older, I think it's less in line with kids real needs and development, it doesn't give many options to manage problems, and it is really hard on the parents.

Grellbunt · 18/05/2021 19:55

@SisterAgatha

I do think there is a huge shift culturally to respecting your child’s autonomy and encouraging them to talk about their emotions etc. Obviously that is necessary but it does require a lot more effort, care and input than the parents I remember of the 80’s who said things like “do as I say not as I do” or who plonked you in front of the tv for hours, or let you play out until sunset, walk home alone, or just kind of didn’t see you much except at meal times. I grew up surrounded by this, it was very free and most families I knew were all the same.

The perfect family has evolved, and so has the role.

At the same time as working full time and looking selfie-ready has become a common theme.
RavingAnnie · 18/05/2021 19:43

@mollythemeerkat

Thanks for sharing. "Half of all mothers in the UK experience a mental health problem before or after birth" - bloody hell, thats dreadful. Old style feminism shouted very loud about maternity leave, financial support, affordable nursery care, job security and decent pay for women etc - has all this stuff got left behind? Also, when I talk to younger friends they speak of how expectation to be the perfect mum and respond to your childs every action and emotion all the time, has become quite oppressive. Is this just a perception or was it a bit more relaxed twenty or thirty years ago?
As someone who had their child 24 years ago. I can categorically say it is not a perception. There was way way less pressure on parents.
SisterAgatha · 18/05/2021 19:37

I do think there is a huge shift culturally to respecting your child’s autonomy and encouraging them to talk about their emotions etc. Obviously that is necessary but it does require a lot more effort, care and input than the parents I remember of the 80’s who said things like “do as I say not as I do” or who plonked you in front of the tv for hours, or let you play out until sunset, walk home alone, or just kind of didn’t see you much except at meal times. I grew up surrounded by this, it was very free and most families I knew were all the same.

The perfect family has evolved, and so has the role.

WineAcademy · 18/05/2021 19:30

I dont feel guilty about motherhood, I feel bitterly resentful.

I was sold this story of beauty and boundless love, an unbreakable bond between mother and child, something indescribably special and unique. And maybe it was, when they were small, sometimes.

But now I have opinionated teens, I've given up a pension pot and career prospects, and for what? To be blamed for everything and yet be expected to serve and fix the family's problems with no questions asked? To be squeezed in the middle of childcare responsibilities and ageing parental care responsibilities?

No, I'm not feeling guilty, I'm resentful and angry. Why is it all on my shoulders?

Tulipmonster · 18/05/2021 19:29

@ArabellaScott

I think recounting birth stories is often essential for women to process it (though it might feel less than helpful to the person listening). I've heard elderly women suddenly launch into an incredibly vivid, blow-by-blow of their birth stories, and there's a kind of urgency in how they're told. I've done the same, unexpectedly, and I think it kind of helped.
Agree with this. Childbirth was the most dangerous, shocking thing I’d ever been through and it’s been incredible to me afterwards to realise how many women feel a similar way. Talking about it, and hearing how other women got through it, helped me reconcile a lot of what happened.
Sideofnoreturn · 18/05/2021 19:27

Thanks for sharing. I agrees with most of it. It’s interesting though because I think there is pressure from all sides on women to be both the perfect mother but also not let motherhood change them - eg pressure to breastfeed your baby yes, but also to “get your life back” as soon as possible which isn’t really compatible with breastfeeding. Same with bed sharing - I have coslept with both of mine for ease and actually felt like more of an outlier there. People were shocked that I hadn’t sleep trained because it must be so awful for my DH!

Also don’t see what’s wrong with the bamboo bowls - better environmentally than plastic surely?

Cyw2018 · 18/05/2021 19:14

@AliasGrape

Thank you for sharing. So much of this rang true for me - it’s helped me to get a handle on something I’ve felt for a while, that ironically I’d probably have coped far better with my traumatic birth and EMCS had I not bought into all the ‘empowering’ hypnoborthing stuff beforehand. Something that was supposed to empower and embolden me left me feeling like a complete and utter failure in the end, and has dogged pretty much every aspect of motherhood since.
Totally agree. I was getting swept along by this whilst attending positive birthing groups. Then one day my friends who had a extreme premie and a full term still birth, plus two other 'normal' births (one a CS), put me straight, she said "the only thing that matters is that you walk out of hospital carrying a healthy baby how that baby arrives is irrelevant". I went home and rewrote my birth plan.
Grellbunt · 18/05/2021 19:05

@ArabellaScott

I think recounting birth stories is often essential for women to process it (though it might feel less than helpful to the person listening). I've heard elderly women suddenly launch into an incredibly vivid, blow-by-blow of their birth stories, and there's a kind of urgency in how they're told. I've done the same, unexpectedly, and I think it kind of helped.
Yep, but it needs to be in the right context- dare I even say a "safe space"!? Not a coffee morning in someone's house juggling your newborn where it's a comparison between ten mums' "performance" (at birthing and breastfeeding!)
OldTurtleNewShell · 18/05/2021 19:04

Something that I think is also relevant but wasn't mentioned (maybe it'll be in the book) is the societal 'uncoolness' of mothers. A good example is how often you see surprise and dismissal of women on mumsnet when we talk about politics, feminism and complex issues.
It's very much shoving mothers into 'just a bunch of mums' category and then dismissing any real issues mothers raise because we are 'just a bunch of mums'.
I've become so aware of that in recent years. I've bought the book. I'll be very interested to see if that comes up.

RobinHobb · 18/05/2021 18:46

I feel the same way
Thank you for articulating it so well

ArabellaScott · 18/05/2021 18:38

I think recounting birth stories is often essential for women to process it (though it might feel less than helpful to the person listening). I've heard elderly women suddenly launch into an incredibly vivid, blow-by-blow of their birth stories, and there's a kind of urgency in how they're told. I've done the same, unexpectedly, and I think it kind of helped.

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Grellbunt · 18/05/2021 18:04

@AliasGrape

Thank you for sharing. So much of this rang true for me - it’s helped me to get a handle on something I’ve felt for a while, that ironically I’d probably have coped far better with my traumatic birth and EMCS had I not bought into all the ‘empowering’ hypnoborthing stuff beforehand. Something that was supposed to empower and embolden me left me feeling like a complete and utter failure in the end, and has dogged pretty much every aspect of motherhood since.
Yep. Wish I'd never gone to NCT.

But there were plenty of real life success stories all around me and the endless revisiting and retelling of birth stories at coffee meetups - accompanied by so much cake, which made me fatter than pregnancy had! - was awful for my mental health ... (although I didn't realise that, unfortunately) . At some point I had to take a conscious decision to just stop bloody talking about it....

I yearned to talk about sth interesting but anything not mundane seemed taboo.

ArabellaScott · 18/05/2021 17:55

@LibertyMole

Men don’t judge how well you are mothering for the same reason they don’t care about provision of high quality childcare - they don’t care that much about children.

The reason mothers feel guilty is because the well-being of children is extremely important, but society has largely abdicated its responsibility and dumped an impossible yet essential task on to mothers.

Yes, for sure.

And I am a strong advocate for supporting mothers to parent both how they want to and in the way that is best for the child.

Women are in an utterly impossible situation as they're being told what is evidentially ideal when practically speaking they are sometimes unable to provide it, and when societal conditions actively work against those ideals.

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ArabellaScott · 18/05/2021 17:53

AFAIR, hypnobabies makes provision for birth interventions etc

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ArabellaScott · 18/05/2021 17:52

[quote Verbena87]@AliasGrape want to join me in starting a Ragged-Fannied Philantropist movement for teaching the useful bits of hypnobirthing without the smug misogynist ideology that makes out that accepting help from experts so our babies don’t die is some kind of moral failing? Honestly: fuck that shit with bells on.

You will come to terms with it (though I’m still cross nearly 4 years on).[/quote]
FWIW, I used hypnobirthing for my 1st and struggled with it, although it did really help me get through contractions and a long horrible labour. For my 2nd I used hypnobabies, which I found gentler ,more down to earth and more woman-friendly. Although I can't remember much about it all and I didn't labour for as long before another c-section ...

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SunsetBeetch · 18/05/2021 17:42

@QuentinBunbury

Really interesting, and I entirely agree.

I was nodding at this If anything, feminism’s longevity compounds the problem: the dial hasn’t shifted, but we want to move on. Calls for affordable childcare or flexible working are met with stifled yawns. See that at work all the time. Womens issues are old hat now. It's all about "inclusion".

Quite. Back to the back of the queue again, before we've even got everything we need.
EdgeOfACoin · 18/05/2021 17:21

@QuentinBunbury

Actually bloody birth plans have a lot to answer for because they make you feel you have some control. Then things don't go to plan so you feel like you've failed. It might be better to call it "statement of wishes" or similar. A guide that can show what your preferences are if you are too busy birthing to talk, but isn't a plan and can change in response to events. I really would love to meet the woman who wrote "I want an epidural, episiotomy and ventouse please" in her birth planGrin
In fairness, the book I'm reading about hypnobirthing does say that you should call them 'birth preferences' not a 'birth plan'. The author also says you should include preferences in the event that you need an induction or a c-section.

I agree that the emphasis is very much on a 'natural' birth, though.

RidingMyBike · 18/05/2021 17:03

This really resonated when I read it this morning. I encountered so much pressure to have a 'natural' birth (from midwives as well as others), breastfeed, do attachment parenting, co-sleep etc. I was made to feel awful if I didn't do all this I'd be failing my child etc. And it made me so miserable.

It turned out that following my instincts saved my baby's life (my milk didn't come in and she urgently needed formula), having a routine, her sleeping in a separate crib and her own room from six months made for a much happier time for all of us. I felt so much better once I'd increased in confidence and was able to parent my way instead of the way others were trying to force me into.

mollythemeerkat · 18/05/2021 17:00

@SmokedDuck - Im with you about the loss of independance of our kids. My daughter in her 30s now, I think was one of the last children who got to play out in the street unsupervised from about age 7. We were within call but not monitoring every move. Ive wondered about the economic imperative too. Great for women who wanted it (and were able to), to get career choices, maybe not so good in other ways. But women in past generations would have sometimes given their back teeth to get into the work place - my ex mother in law was really bitter about this.

SmokedDuck · 18/05/2021 16:26

I think that the femisist questions around motherhood and the competative aspect are not necessarily from the same source.

I think it's absolutely true that parenthood is less relaxed. Some of this sees to be related to liability culture, and fears and lack of reasonable risk assessment, weird perfectionism about things like diet, an idea that if you do things the right way, everything will be fine, and if they aren't fine you must have done something wrong. All stuff that's not confined to parenting.

I have wondered if some things are related to kids being in care so much. Parents won't let their kids do things that used to be normal, like walk to school or play in the park, even when objectively it's just as safe. They figure the school or nursery has to keep eyes on the kids 100% of the time, and so parenting is seen as the same. There isn't much relief from constantly watching the kids.

Af far as feminism, motherhood is totally the unanswered question, and I suspect is part of the reason why many women lost interest in it as a movement. It seemed, apart from some niche writers, to totally get behind the capitalist drive to put all women in the workplace and monetise childcare. And more recently to not only push to give similar parental leaves for fathers to give families more support and optins, but calls to mandate that the parents must share the leave time because of an idea that women must not give up careers or jobs more often than men, in order to try and get rid of statistical disparities.

Women who weren't keen were given short shrift by feminists in many cases, and so their thoughts and insights were lost as they simply stopped being involved. But it's not been a great look to have so much come down on the side of the question that is better for capital, and also in many instances is a boost to class power for the professional classes but really not so much for working class or even lower middle class people.

QuentinBunbury · 18/05/2021 16:04

Ah ok, I get you. Yes I agree. I really hope the government bring in paid use it or lose it paternity leave for fathers at some point as that would really help. Although I'd make it so they could only use it when the mother was working so as to make the dads actually do the childcare Grin

LibertyMole · 18/05/2021 15:58

No, not what I mean at all.

I mean the government and public services caring about women in general and mothers in particular, not just relying on individual men actually changing.