Girl guiding

Girl Guides was the making of me. I had a shit childhood home and here was somewhere I could be myself, learn adventurous, non- stereotyped activities and leadership skills.

It gave me confidence I would never otherwise have had and ultimately led to a successful career.

I always thought I would give back by becoming a volunteer and an appeal for volunteers keeps appearing on my Facebook feed. I've taken early retirement and am looking for a volunteering role where I can make a difference.

But the fact it's no longer single sex and they don't listen to their volunteers' concerns about safeguarding, putting wokeness first, means this isn't an organisation I can be part of.

I wonder how many other women like me feel the same?

No matter I suppose, they can always target their efforts at transwomen looking for validation. ☹️

Isn't that just s massive massive kick in the teeth for all those women who have volunteered their time, waded through all the paperwork, delivered activities to girls week after week, often for years?

Yes, it is!

I really feel for the women who have given enormous amounts of their own time as Leaders to be then thrown under the bus by HQ by being described as unwelcoming (as Sittinonthesand has mentioned above).

I was involved in Guiding from Rainbow to Young Leader. Always assumed I would volunteer as a Leader once I had kids. Now I do and not only won't my daughter be attending but I won't be volunteering either due to all this single gender safeguarding nightmare.

As well as pissing off and losing experienced Leaders, they are putting off those who would consider being Leaders in the future. Is this why there has been relentless adverts for recruitment of GG volunteers on Facebook lately?

Exactly nice! I read that email about how ‘we’ aren’t welcoming etc and I’m one of the volunteers- they were apologising at us for our collective actions. And the guide leaders I know are extremely sensible who put loads of effort in to help girls! And yes maybe Guides isn’t going to appeal to ‘everyone’ of course it isn’t! Nothing is! But it does welcome all girls who want to join. I’ve never heard of any accusations of leaders not being inclusive. I do know a few grumpy leaders who might put people off, but they are equally grumpy to everyone and it’s generally because no one ever thanks them.
I have no idea who the people at head office are, what they say has so little resemblance to what the women running units think and do - I can’t think where they come from. I don’t think I can be bothered to volunteer anymore.

The thing I don't get it that

The women who volunteer their time to do the on the ground work. Do it because they have an interest in doing stuff for girls. That's feministy even if they don't see themselves that way.

The ones I know are all very down to earth sensible types.

I can't see them being terribly on board with this when it comes to the crunch. If they aren't before that.

And all the stuff about how they've failed at welcoming all and taking account of stuff like religion. The racism stuff. The massive apologies for being so awful.

Isn't that just s massive massive kick in the teeth for all those women who have volunteered their time, waded through all the paperwork, delivered activities to girls week after week, often for years?

Did they even think of that? What they are actually suggesting about their volunteers?

Also (as I never said I wasn’t a bit sad) I stayed in guides till I was 18 (was called a ranger guide back in the last century). I used to do the odd regional/national camp where you pitched up solo and got put in a tent with unknown girls from another unit.

Doesn’t sound such a great idea now does it?

How painful to see such a respected institution for girls having been captured in this way - and when you look at the organisations / individuals behind all this - so grim.

Girls no longer have to identify as girls to be members but leaders must identify as women. So only women who subscribe to gender ideology can be leaders. We don't have to believe in God, only in the Genderbread person.

By the way my solicitor, same as Maya's, is moving firm. Get your Google fingers and your spades ready.

Yes they did. Trans boys and noon binary boys as well. Any female child who didn't strongly internally identity with the 'identity' girl.

They backtracked on that for non binary children I think.

However what to do about trans boys in the GG is not something I saw mentioned. (I didn't go through it with a fine tooth comb though).

When I say be gender non conforming I mean that the point of guides etc is (to me) a space where girls can try out lots of things including “things that aren’t typically feminine.” Which I appreciate we would in an ideal world just refer to as “things.”

I think the old rules were a girl who no longer identifies as a girl would be signposted and supported to move to a more appropriate organisation.

That’s what makes me mad. Guides should be a place girls can be themselves and be gender non conforming. If girls are exploring their identity they shouldn’t have to decide and get moved along. Surely single sex groups are the place to explore your identity?

I’m so disappointed. Guiding was a big part of my childhood and teens. A lot of that involved camping, being filthy, hiking etc. It was a really important space where girls could do all that without boys present. I’d hate to think of a girl who is exploring her gender identity being excluded from that.

I doubt there will be much? I mean I don't know.

I wonder what the parents and press make of it.

I assume the charities commission is fine with them having an exemption for equality not based on sex but on self id gender. Even though that does discriminate between male children and female children on a fairly arbitrary basis.

Just realised I didn't see anything about whether trans boys or non binary females would be allowed to join/ continue to be a member if they change their pronouns etc.

I'll be interested to know how GGUKs new policy is viewed internationally (WAGGGS?). In some countries, it can only exist as it is Single Sex .

I just admit I didn't spot that either.

For reference:

www.girlguiding.org.uk/making-guiding-happen/running-your-unit/including-all/supporting-trans-members/

...we uphold our promise to support all girls and young women including trans girls...

They say girls will support it as most believe transgender people should not be discriminated against.. That's not actually the same question!

Brilliant. It’s about safeguarding and children and teens aren’t - and shouldn’t be - responsible for that. That’s an adult policy decision.

The GG make me madder than most things about this ‘debate’.

www.girlguiding.org.uk/about-us/diversity-and-inclusion/

Boom! Here it is out in public.

Had a squiz through.

Yes it is self ID.

They say girls will support it as most believe transgender people should not be discriminated against.. That's not actually the same question!

The inclusion in residentials bit says literally nothing about how it will be handled.

Guide leaders must prioritise ensuring that every girl is super welcome by all the others.

Talk about balancing eg religion with other things. Then says trans inclusion is important.

Has pages quoting various laws to imply it would be illegal to be a single sex org.

Has said their royal charter as an org for girls means mixed sex as TGAG.

whole thing seems skewed towards this topic surprise surprise.

Most pages have s thing saying if you hear from the press send them to head office. IE they have s statement ready for the press.

Will be interesting to see what happens next...

I also read it with a sinking heart and then couldn’t work out what new things they are actually saying.

The disconnect between what comes from the top and what goes on in my local area couldn’t be bigger.

There is 0 chance of a trans woman/girl slipping unnoticed into one of our local units.

There are a couple of trans boys and they are supported but have their own facilities and private sleeping arrangements at camp. It’s also not a secret- parents/girls knew long before the leaders did!

There are girls in my unit and district from a diverse range of backgrounds- similar to the make up of the area. When I have lived in different parts of the country my unit has been made up of different ethnicities as you would expect as representative of the local area.

I don’t understand or recognise GGUK’s concerns and I fear their ‘solutions’.

‘We’re sorry if anyone has felt excluded by us...’

Tell that to Katie Alcock.

I agree @NoSquirrels be open about it being a mixed gender organisation would be far more sensible if they feel unable to maintain the single sex groups.

I’m drafting a reply to their inclusivity email, I’m sure it will fall on deaf ears but at least my thoughts will go on record. Just hope that doesn’t get my DD struck off ...or I may find that’s not ‘inclusive’ enough..

If they would be properly open about it being a mixed sex organisation, and conducted their safeguarding on that basis, I would regain some respect for them. Or uphold their single sex exemption. Either way. But this ‘single gender’ organisation boils my piss.

@SSwimCycle21 you might need it.

Just had the email and cam here to see your opinions! I thought it was a pretty pointless email, full of every cliche and jargon yet not actually saying anything!