Girl guiding

Can I just ask if the dbs is reliant on people who have changed their names disclosing this and giving their previous ones via a phone call?

Are people with previous offences only revealed if they themselves choose to disclose this? If this is the case, the dbs is a joke. You may as well have a tick box for people who want to voluntarily declare any past offences.

I always remember with the many sex abuse cases in Ireland that those wishing to abuse children go into roles where they will have access to children. I would have thought there was real vetting going on in organisations like girl guiding. (in order to protect children).

At grass roots level we still do all that stuff. Don't forget that the leaders tend to be the really keen Guides who grew up but never left. We do the stuff we loved as Guides.

[quote Chrysanthemum5]@Cailleach1 the system relies on individuals being honest about previous names. People who identify as transgender put their new name, but are supposed to phone up to talk it through[/quote]
What could possibly go wrong?

Just want to say the amount of work the leaders have to do is heavy and I’m very appreciative.

But as my DD goes into adolescence I am appalled at the idea of her space not being protected. I worry that this is seen as ‘Karen’s’ suggesting all trans are sex offenders. This is absolutely not the case. It’s about wanting my daughter to know that it’s ok to say ‘I want privacy from male sexed people’, this is not judgment about them this isn’t even about them, it’s about her and her fellow female peers. This should be her fundamental right. I’m not being made to feel bad about this!

@Cailleach1 the system relies on individuals being honest about previous names. People who identify as transgender put their new name, but are supposed to phone up to talk it through

Like others, I’m utterly depressed by this. Our local leaders are, as far as I can tell, amazing women doing their best. There are a few girls with Down’s syndrome who attend, and are totally embraced, and a couple of girls with special needs (I don’t know them well enough to know what) in my DD’s guides who are clearly loved by the leaders. To be the subject of a blanket apology must be devastating for them personally.

Unfortunately there’s also a boy who attends one of the Guides groups. When DD joined it age 10 it was one of the first things I noticed, and when I discussed it with her it was clear she was thoroughly confused by it (her best friend is a boy so she wasn’t bothered). If covid hadn’t happened then there would have been a camp last year - how would this teenage boy have been accommodated in the tents? Would parents be told?

DD has since moved to a different evening, but it still preys on my mind not only that girls are being gaslit, but that this young boy is being prepared for a life of drugs and surgery by those “affirming” his identity.

Guides has truly lost its way on this.

I know leaders are DBS checked, but the form relies on individuals who identify as transgender phoning up to inform the DBS about previous names.

I was wondering about this. Can a person's previous offences still be seen, irrespective of whether they change their name? I don't care what the reason for the name change (or their identity belief) is as it is not about the person; it is for the safety of those around that person and the threat they may potentially pose.

Interestingly all the leaders at my son's Cubs / scouts bar one are women.

Thank you for the info about camping and outdoor skills and so glad it still happens even if not core curriculum any more. Thank you to everyone who volunteers for GGUK or has done so

I still wonder if there’s a charity commission case, where charities who list girls and women as their beneficiary group, then self ID that that group includes men and boys, without informing everyone and crucially without changing their legal charitable objectives.

I was just coming on to post this - I see buried in the text (and I had to search pretty hard to find it) GG have confirmed that this is all based on self-ID. Which they erroneously claim is the law.

My daughter's GG troop is brilliant - they do a huge range of different things, and they were already very inclusive to girls from different religions, and couldn't be more accommodating of my daughter's autism.

However, the leaders are all young women and leaving all this up to them is completely unfair. What do they do if someone who is biologically male wants to become a leader? Do they just have to accept that the girls who are not allowed to be with men have to leave. I know leaders are DBS checked, but the form relies on individuals who identify as transgender phoning up to inform the DBS about previous names.

It's so infuriating. How can they witter on about the importance of a female-only space and then open it up to self-ID

It’s not true that Brownies and Guides don’t go camping or light fires. My daughters are both involved and done all kinds of den building and nature stuff and camping in all weathers (including in the middle of winter) and hiking in the dark.

The GG movement is a girls organisation - for girls. Scouts have allowed girls to join , GG did not. It should in my view remain a place for girls.

Some Scouts can be very boy heavy and/or have very old fashioned and sexist leaders. We can't assume that all men suddenly become non sexist as soon as they put on Scout uniform.
And yes, there are racist Guide leaders, and yes, Cubs make bird feeders and do art and Beavers use glitter...

They missed out misogyny in their long list. Is it because they are happy practising misogyny?

Apparently the Scout section of our Scout group is currently 75% girl.
Beavers also very girl heavy.
Cubs is only about a third girls (4) though, with two due to move up to Scouts this summer.

So Scouting definitely see to be appealing to girls locally. No idea about the numbers at Rainbows, Brownies and Guides though. (Locally it's still limited to 15 children per section based on hut size)

Units do vary according to the interests and skills of the girls and Leaders. The one DD attends is very active and outdoorsy and under normal circumstances would go camping several times a year.
There are lots of practical and camp based activities in the new programme as well as some updated ones.
Personally I rather like the majority of the new programme. There are a few dud ones but you're allowed to adapt and vary the content to suit your own group.

In my experience of the differences between Scouts and Guides - I do think Guides are a bit more risk averse with activities (more rules!).

My DD is leaving Brownies and starting Cubs because in the end there are only so many bird feeders you can make.

Everything they did was "girly". Then she went to a Cubs meeting with my son when I was on the Cubs parents' rota and couldn't get childcare for her and DD had a wild time running round, playing wide games etc. Cubs do night hikes, pitching tents etc. Brownies don't seem to do any of that.

Christ, that's appalling.

I went off guides pdq after loving brownies. It would have been pre curriculum change but the unit was dull and girl stereotypical.

Late 80's, Locally there was a tradition of village queens and a parade. I was chosen from guides and didn't have the foggiest what I was doing until actually on the waggon. I'd not been told about curtsying to the head queen either. Shuffled up and shuffled back.

Then watched dramatic flinging on the floor curtsies that had been practised for weeks. And felt like a shit failure in my over the top fluffy white bridesmaid dress.

I left not long after and thinking about it now, then cut all my hair off.

I MUCH preferred venture scouts as we actually did all that and it was mixed sex (though by 17 there's many reasons why we liked that!) I was invested on top of snowdon after climbing the hard way with a massive back pack and 10 m visibility.

I had many friends who's parents ran the scouts, and I think then girls could join. I just went on the odd outing and to discos.

Chatty - I’m sure many units do still do campfires etc, but that would be outside the new programme. We do it because girls and leaders all love it! It doesn’t seem important to HQ!

I had the email too.
Mixed feelings.
I'm glad that they have considered whether there's been historic problems around racism, etc. If suspect some of the homophobia they're apologising for could be against former leaders.
But the performative apology is a bit cringy and I think they keep losing sight of the fact that GG is largely delivered by kind, well meaning volunteers. There's only so much people can do and it does feel sometimes that volunteers are held to extraordinarily high standards.
One paragraph I actually found quite chilling in the new policy was about 'other laws' which to me, insinuated ways a volunteer could be told off for wrong think...
Whilst I am not personally happy with the way GG have interpreted the meaning of the word girl, I do still think it overall is a really good place for girls and young women.
Look forward to seeing the outcome of this legal challenge though.

Cubs and scouts let girls in; they're "fully inclusive". I have no understanding of why trans identifying males can't go there.

There are specific biological reasons why guides and brownies are kept single sex.

This is about validation. Again.

Wait what GGUK doesn’t do camping, fire lighting, all the rest of it, any more?

Yep the curriculum change was a final straw for us.

Can't work towards planning a meal/swimming/ anything my girls did . But decorate a cake with a theme of a fairy tale. Wtf. Or activism. I think the gg were pretty revolutionary existig as a single sex space to do all the things. Having activism on the curriculum defeats that.

Its very much death by following their dumbed down syllabus and unfortunately leads to the belief I used to argue against that cubs/scouts do the more interesting activities. Now they quite literally do.... still allowed interests and challenges.

I too grew up in gg having camped and abseiled and felt safe from a complicated family and was so pleased of the space. Also got to try canoeing/loved the campfires and songs etc and sense of belonging.

We've pulled my girls and feel sad that mixed sex scouts is the only option. Its a real defeat for women. The chamce to explore and grow/try new activiriesin a single sex environment has gone.

Wait - I believe a lot of volunteers have left. A new programme was introduced a few years ago and it’s been very unpopular. A move away from the adventurous, challenging non-stereotyped girls like whiskers loved to much more focus on the environment, campaigning, loads of writing and talking about feelings. Lots of stuff making the girls feel they are responsible for plastic pollution and saving the planet. My own dd says it’s too like school. It’s also no longer girl- led as they have to complete all these tedious activities to get any badges in meetings and get the ‘gold award’ (which has to be time consumingly recorded on a clunky website). Interest badges have been dumbed down and can’t be done in meetings. The interest badges also seem to assume everyone lives in a town and swimming, dancing etc have disappeared as they ‘weren’t inclusive’ - replaced by things like ‘craftivism’. Few of the girls do them.
When they get feedback from the girls they ask things like ‘do you care about the environment’ & ‘do you think people should be discriminated against.’ The girls obviously answer yes and no then gg uses that to justify their decisions. The questions are ridiculously phrased in order to get the results they want - it was literally a list of ‘what are you interested in from this list of current social issues’ with no options for just having fun/climbing/camping...