Girl guiding

It's such a shame. GG used to be a fantastic organisation but it's lost it's way so badly recently.

Surely a boy who doesn’t identify as trans would have a claim for discrimination if they refused him membership, as their claim to be a single sex org in accordance with Equality Act exception is false?

That is entirely correct under the actual law.

But GGUK believe in Stonewall law, where self ID is a protected characteristic, and under 18s can self ID as trans and be afforded the protection of the laws on discrimination. This is completely wrong, as Essex Uni have confirmed.

I must say what I’ve seen of the new badge system doesn’t inspire me, either, but becoming a mixed sex org while claiming to be a single sex org is my key concern.

Surely a boy who doesn’t identify as trans would have a claim for discrimination if they refused him membership, as their claim to be a single sex org in accordance with Equality Act exception is false?

Even if complaints are ignored, the more they get the more worried they will be.

I know my daughters guide leader personally and she says that they are trouble financially (especially after Covid) we’ve been asked to pay all our fees even when they haven’t met as Guides say they need the money to survive.

If a boy came into my daughters Guide group I can guarantee most of them would quit. DD loves Guides for one reason, no boys. I know girls attend Scouts etc but for DD she has to put up with boys taking over everything all day in school, this is a safe place.

It's occurred to me that when GGUK created the trans inclusion policy, they must have envisaged that there would always be a biological female leader acting as a gatekeeper/ policewoman to watch over the actions of any trans leaders or guides.

But presumably, there is no bar to 2 or 3 transwomen setting up and running a unit, and being completely in charge of safekeeping and risk assessment. And filling it with transgirls of their choice, as they will have control over the waiting list.

If that would not be possible, why not? Either transwomen are women, and, with clean a DBS and leadership qualification, can set up and run a unit on their own, or they are not, and GGUK do not believe their own mantras.

I would be very surprised if someone hasn't already emailed them SlipperyLizard
But, if you wanted to,. I would just say something along the lines of saying you had seen the comments on Facebook and this is the report being referred to. Make no personal comments if you're concerned about repercussions.

Both of those things (no permanent leader, and girls moving to different units) say to me that unit won't be open long. Can you move your DD to a different unit?
Complaints directly to GG do nothing, but they are official policy. Leaders like Helen Watts and me and many others complained before we took to social media (in a whispery voice in my case, and they decided I hadn't breached guidelines) and it did nothing but it's within GG guidelines.

I’m tempted to email Guides to refer them to the Uni of Essex report (given that Stonewall wrote their trans inclusion policy). If I do it in my name, will there be any comeback for my girls? As a PP said, there’s so little for non-sporty girls to do outside of school.

@Reachersloveinterest I also thought this wouldn’t be an issue in my small town, until I saw the boy in my DD’s Guides unit.

Interestingly, the unit the boy attends appears to have no permanent leader, and most (all?) of the girls who attend brownies on the same night (who would usually move up to that Guides) seem to move up to a different evening.

I was only doing home learning plus a job but I have to say I wasn't too upset I wasn't trying to do Zoom meetings.

Many leaders like myself have worked tirelessly through lockdown to keep our units going virtually. Many of us in my district work for the NHS, and to be honest spending hours adapting activities and sitting on zoom has been the last thing I've wanted to do after a stressful day at work. It does feel like a kick in the teeth to receive an email to say we are "unwelcoming".
I really think they need to focus on more important issues, membership has dropped significantly this year. Many units are now in financial difficulty, and are now finding due to Covid restrictions they have no meeting place.

I think maybe a lot of women don't realise the exhilaration & freedom of a single-sex women/girls space. No boys' egos to deal with ...

I suspect lots of guiders will give up their packs. Guides, Brownies and Rainbows should be a safe girl space I do not agree with the policy of allowing boys to join

Enjoy you meal out! I'll watch the video later.

I've had complaints against me at work, too, mainly for my "public understanding of science" type posts or signing letters rather than anything directly related to Guiding (I think the students complaining would know they'd get short shrift; the Press Office know it's happening and also know it's not within their remit).
When I started my case, my husband and I sat down and discussed whether there would be financial implications. I'm in a permanent position, I report on science that other people have published and that's peer reviewed, but this is an expensive case and we know we can't afford to lose our home. So it was a serious discussion. Other academics or younger professionals/Guiders won't be in such a secure position financially or personally.

Anyway I'm off to EAT OUT with the DCs, and I will have a look at the comments on the YouTube later (you can't see them while you are doing it).

Katie Alcock is live now on The Mess We're In

I think they are relieved when those who go against their policy resign tbh. Its their ideology over and above what the guiding movement does. People making policy - with no concern for girls on the ground or the units closing. People flown in I assume, with no love for guiding like those who have worked through the ranks. :(

Just had a look at the FB page. The top two posts by them are on this subject and there is a lot of pushback. People speaking against their policy are definiely in the majority.

Would you risk your job, your salary, your mortgage to speak out?
For your hobby?

Probably not, but there will surely be an awful lot of Guiders who are not in that position.

I did speak out. I was a District, then Division Commissioner, as well as being a Leader. I was given a written warning for something I put on FB in support of Katie Alcock.

I resigned at that point, and made it clear it was because I wasn't prepared to approve residential events that were unable to be called out as mixed sex. I didn't want my name on a form for an event where a girl gets abused.

The moment they try to foist a "trans girl" onto me, I will be done.

Sadly it won't be long. Where I live I feel a bit removed as we are a long way from any cities, in a very conservative (small c and big C!) area, but I have learned this week that there is a member of the county team who has a trans child. It's coming and I am very sad because it will be the end of Guiding for me, after over 35 years involved.

My DD is a guide having attended right through from rainbows. She doesn't go to guides for social policy advice, she goes to do fun activities!

It was noticeable on that Fb thread that of those people who were saying TWAW, many who were challenged with actual facts in response to comments such as TW being the most oppressed minority, then shuffled off with a 'let's agree to disagree/be kind' response. My hope is that if even one of them goes away and reads more around this, then that's one more person fighting for the rights of girls and women.

I have had to renew my safe guarding training recently, and fed a lot back to HQ about the unlawfulness of their trans inclusion policy, as well as pointing out that it is impossible to apply in the day to day. Eg, how are you supposed to deal with the gender fluid? They have not responded.

There is a complete disconnect between HQ and ground roots, and they simply don't seem to care that units are closing down in droves. Sending out ads for new leaders is all well and good, but what are they doing to support existing leaders? When they issue threats in response to legitimate concerns, like the one cited above, it just reeks of contempt.

Covid has devastated guiding where I live, but it wasn't great beforehand, and it's not for lack of demand, the waiting lists are long. The new programme is bloody hard work, to prepare and sometimes to fund, as well as being dull and unwieldy. None of the girls have much in the way of appetite/support/resources/time to get their Interest Badges (the bit they have to do at home), so they cannot progress in the award system. The hours we have to put in to cover the theme awards in meetings leaves little time for the fun, "traditional" stuff, which is what guiding should be about. Their paperwork demands are ridiculous, their online system is total crap, their forms don't work properly. My unit kept going over lockdown, but we got no help or encouragement from our district - not even an email to ask how we were doing.

The only reason I am carrying on is because of guilt/obligation to the girls and people locally who helped train me. The moment they try to foist a "trans girl" onto me, I will be done.

They won't be taking on board any facebook/twitter responses as their world view sees GC akin to racism etc that is irrelevant to them.