She's such a hateful bigot, isn't she?

No, I said ANY public figure who speaks out on a high profile debate should consider their influence before doing so. That is not preventing anyone from speaking out.

I thought her essay was considered and sensitive. So could I ask what she said wrong, specifically? What is it she should have given more consideration to?

In the scheme of things, there are many causes domestic and international that are most likely more beneficial to larger groups of people.

I think it’s a wonderful thing to do and she is brilliant.

You seem to be making them synonymous, so it would be helpful for you to clarify that being a gender critical feminist does not make you a transphobe (someone who hates trans people) then it won't be taken as an insult.

Yes, how can I not be a "transphobe" as a gender critical feminist? Do I have to pretend to believe in something I don't and agree not to have any boundaries?

[quote peachgreen]@NotBadConsidering I have repeatedly condemned such language, both here and elsewhere. It's disgusting and can never be justified.[/quote]
So where has Rowling “emboldened transphobes”? Evidence? Explanation? Like I said, it’s just TRA speak for giving women a voice, unless you can provide evidence of active emboldenment.

I'm sure you don't see that as something to be ashamed of

Quite. Why on earth would we?

@NotBadConsidering I have repeatedly condemned such language, both here and elsewhere. It's disgusting and can never be justified.

@peachgreen Your evidence for Maya Forstater being a transphobe is?

Emboldened transphobes” is TRA speak for given women and allies the courage to speak out for women’s rights.

This.

In what way is Maya Forstater anti trans? Supporting the rights of women to describe themselves as a group and the rights of women to single sex spaces is pro women and can surely not be considered bigoted?

so I don't see why calling JKR GC is considered to be an insult?

You said JKR has enabled transphobes. Your evidence for this is “just look under her tweets”. This is unfounded bullshit.

However, if you did look under her tweets at the time you would have seen this:

medium.com/@rebeccarc/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-activists-a-story-in-screenshots-78e01dca68d

I’m sure, peachgreen you have an “enabled transphobes” equivalent?

Given the death threats, the rape threats, the threats to children and other vulnerable people, the screams and shrieks, the physical violence meted out to women standing up for themselves, fear of trans people seems to be becoming a perfectly reasonable and proportionate response.

Unless of course trans people and/or their allies never threaten women, children and other vulnerable people with violence, death threats, rape threats, barbed-wire-wrapped baseball bats, lawsuits, browbeatings, pile-ons, threats to employers etc. But that's not so, is it? Unless it's only so-called allies threatening these things - in which case, why aren't trans people standing up in their thousands decrying the violence and the threats?

They're rearming in defiance of the Treaty of Versailles.

You have not given a single example of JKR's "stance on trans rights".

Sorry, I didn't think I needed to? Her stance on trans rights is very clear. She made a statement outlining it. I don't agree with it. That's all I have said.

You have not given a single example of JKR "us[ing] her platform in ways that have legitimised transphobia
I have explained this.

who literally, it appears, saved your mother's life.
This is a low blow. But again, as I have said, I am extremely grateful to her and regardless of how I feel about her view on this debate, I believe she should be recognised for the wonderful charitable works she has undertaken. That's not a controversial statement, surely?

I wish Mel Brooks was in his prime. How I'd love to see him do a Producers on Hitler and JK Rowling and the TRAs.

It would be a thing of beauty. Maybe Graham will do it one day.

Hope she reads this thread, it's great.

Absolutely adore her, as does most of the nation and much of the world. A brave, courageous and wonderful person.

@peachgreen Condemned the actions but still happy to support those who carried them out.

Also, happy to label Maya Forstater a transphobe, for what exactly? Happy to criticise JKR for daring to support Maya. Did Maya do or say anything remotely in the ball park of what is regularly flung at her, JKR, and gender critical feminists by the side you support?

You mention a sensitive debate there is one side that refused to debate at all, there is one side that does the utmost to shut down any debate, there is one side that threatens death, rape and violence, there is one side that attempts to get people thrown out of their employment, there is one side that tries to get people convicted for hate crimes/non crime hate incidents for having an opposing view to their own. The side doing that is NOT the side Maya, JKR or gender critical feminists are on, it is the side you are on, the side you support.

I think Dolly Parton too.

This is what your first post says @peachgreen

I don't agree with JKR's stance on trans rights and I strongly dislike the fact that she has used her platform in ways that have legitimised transphobia,

You have not given a single example of JKR's "stance on trans rights".

You have not given a single example of JKR "us[ing] her platform in ways that have legitimised transphobia*

Not one single scrap of evidence.

Yet you come on here casting aspersions, and implying falsehoods and hateful conduct on a woman who literally, it appears, saved your mother's life.

You really are something else.

@JudgeJ that put me in mind of a song....

Well done Joanne, she does do so much good with her earnings, it would be nice to see the child actors that got rich on the back of her talent making similar donations..

@youvegottenminuteslynn I don't follow her closely enough for it to be appropriate for me to make a statement either way.

oldLang

The only point I have tried to make on this thread is that regardless of one's opinions of JKR's position on the debate around trans rights, she has done many wonderful, charitable things which are worthy of acknowledgement.

That's it.

And you can see my refusal (as a SA survivor) to use a SA survivor's traumatic experiences as part of a debate as reprehensible if you wish, but it will not encourage me to do so.

I note though that you mention her initial statement, so it does rather sound like you wouldn't say she isn't transphobic now. Your prerogative of course.

Oh @peachgreen

Not only an astounding failure to make an argument or, indeed, a single point of any substance whatsoever. But then taking it upon oneself to completely disregard disengage from a poster bravely sharing one of the reasons why this matters so much to biological women.
Reprehensible really.

And we're still no further forward on what makes a woman's rights advocate transphobic (or even what transphobia actually is).

Frankly, anyone who's seen or experienced male violence has every right to be afraid of men. It says much more about you as a person to suggest otherwise, much less ridiculing us into opening our spaces to some of the very people we'd need safety from in the first place.

Karen White, Jessica Yaniv, Fallon Fox, Hannah Mouncey? Fucking right I'd be afraid of them. Interestingly, that admission of fear is also what they're revelling in.
Why is everyone else's experience/identity/affirmation/sheer existence valid apart from women's?