Women don’t feel safe with Starmer's Labour

I do wonder how much the Conservatives let the Lib Dems have the TRA agenda as a sop in the coalition government. Lbr they shafted them on everything else they wanted especially proportional representation. The Tories probably saw this as niche issue that hardly anyone cared about.

2010 Coalition government
2011 publication of the transgender action plan www.gov.uk/government/publications/transgender-action-plan

The Lib Dems would have worked with and influenced a number of key people in Parliament and the civil service so even when they were no longer in Government, the seeds that they planted flourished.

And Liz Truss will say whatever it suits her career to say. Just like Penny Mordaunt, Justine Greening, Maria Millar and all the rest did.

Agreed.

However given the choice between not doing much to actively stop it but not letting it get much further, with a lot of low level fiddling around and an awareness that this is an absolute hot potato best not touched..... and full steam ahead total insanity?

I know which my vote goes to.

“ I think identity politics is heavily damaging Labour support but the Conservative Party are happy to create and implement policies that actively harm the most disadvantaged women in real life, yet because they don't say TWAW a lot of women on this board are happy to give them their vote.”

They don’t say “TWAW” these days because it suits them to let the issue tear apart the Left. Behind the scenes, they have just as a big a problem with identity politics.

It is the Conservatives that are in power, and have been since 2015. Prior to that, it was the Conservatives that formed a coalition with the LibDems.

If women don’t feel safe, that’s down to the Conservatives. They are the ones with the power to do anything; they are the ones that stirred up this whole Trans issue in the first place - it was the women of the Greens, LibDems and Labour that brought it to our attention and did the fighting when the Conservative Government was pushing the TRA agenda. Many of them are still there, still fighting. How disrespectful to ignore their work!

The Government could put a stop to all this if they wanted to. They choose not to for political purposes.

And Liz Truss will say whatever it suits her career to say. Just like Penny Mordaunt, Justine Greening, Maria Millar and all the rest did.

[quote PoTheDog]@Shedbuilder I don't normally post on these threads as I am definitely not as knowledgeable and many others. But I wanted to say how much your LGB / QT+ seperation resonates with me. It's mad really that they are grouped together, really.

Thanks, I feel like I've just had a little light bulb moment![/quote]
The LGB part is the human shield. The QT+ on its own would not survive its own mind bending "logic", behavioural inconsistencies, biological impossibilities and (things I can't say or I will get deleted). But without the QT+, Stonewall is a defunct entity. It's a big old cash cow, fingers in all the pies, and a guaranteed gong for its leaders if you play your cards right. Hard to let go of. That's why Stonewall is so frightened of the LGB Alliance, and has to paint it as a hate group.

Just wanted to add that I cancelled my membership last month and didn't renew my daughter's because of this very issue.

I've always voted Labour, but will not be able to again until they recognise that being a woman & female is biology and not a shifting definition of an undefined gender identity.

I didn't vote in the PCC election last week, Labours Keith Hunter lost the election to a Tory candidate, I heard the result on the radio and felt pleased, never before have I ever felt pleased to hear a Conservative election win......just awful.

@Shedbuilder I don't normally post on these threads as I am definitely not as knowledgeable and many others. But I wanted to say how much your LGB / QT+ seperation resonates with me. It's mad really that they are grouped together, really.

Thanks, I feel like I've just had a little light bulb moment!

Labour is on your side as long as you are the right sort of person of colour, stay in you (victim) box, and agree with everything I say. It's barely veiled racism.

This is a very shrewd insight.

There is that champagne socialist ethos of having special pets, the current patronised groups, with a lot of talk about how special those groups are and how much the speaker cares - but they absolutely expect those patronised groups they are condescending to should stay in their box, and behave and think and speak as told. The response to any of those group who do not behave nicely in staying in their box demonstrates it clearly.

It's based on a belief in superiority, greater purity, greater righteousness that permits making decisions for lesser people. And good lesser people who follow nicely get cookies. People who get out of their boxes and challenge..... deserve to be punished with lesser civil rights. This is what we saw in the appeal for women who argue for single sex spaces to be denied political representation. For women who will not prioritise a male person over their culture, faith, disability, trauma, to just be excluded from access to public spaces because they don't deserve it for their sins.

This is the dregs of Mandelson's statement about believing politics had reached a post democratic era where the general public would be told what to think, what to do and what to vote by their betters, who were much better educated and worldly wise than they were.

Mandelson and his descendent's massive mistake is not to realise the very serious problems this reveals about Mandelson and this culture of Labour . And Labour and their followers' responses are still - if you're not voting for us, it's because you're too stupid to see our superiority and the rightness of our plans for you. It's a continual attempt at Mother Knows Best. And they're so divorced now from reality or people skills or a sense of equality with others that they just get angrier with the disobedience of the electorate than question themselves.

Shedbuilder. Not just on women's issues and not just our political parties. Unfortunately, the world does not seem a broad church at the moment either. It's all a bit depressing.
I do think we as a society are still getting to grips with www and sm echochambers which seem to discourage rather than encourage debate. But that's a debate for elsewhere!
One glimmer of hope - in many spheres of life - to hold on to is that we do get a distorted view on here. Most people aren't on mumsnet and most people aren't on Twitter. When you talk to people in real life (lockdown has not helped in this respect as lack of face to face contact and group interaction) people are generally more reasonable and less extreme in their view and more interested in discussing rather than lecturing.

The point that @LadyWithLapdog and most of the Labour Party are spectacularly missing is that many women want to vote for Labour. If we were all happy Tories, we wouldn't be complaining about Labour's misogyny - we'd be delighted, because it means more votes for the Conservatives.

The problem is that you have made the Labour Party hostile to women. You have chosen to do that, and now you're blaming women for not wanting to vote for you, which illustrates just how deep your misogyny goes.

If you campaigned against equal marriage, would you expect gay people to vote for you?

If you campaigned to remove anyone non-white from the UK, would you expect black people to vote for you?

It's only women who are expected to suck up any level of erasure and abuse, yet still do what our masters tell us, and vote for you anyway. Fuck that.

Will do re LGB / QT+ Shed

I hear you, Shedbuilder, and I will not write that again. Unfortunately, sexuality and gender is very much tied together through Stonewall, who remain all powerful, and who still seem to enjoy considerable support amongst the LGB. The tide is slowly turning, but Stonewall is still seen as the good -guy- person of unspecified gender to the uninitiated.

Anyway, my point was, women are now at a stage where, thanks to entities like Stonewall trying to erase us, we should be allowed to lobby on the single issue of WOMEN without being told that other things are more important. That shit has been going on for too long, particularly in the Labour Party, where women have been the backbone, but constantly kept in their place.

I experienced this hatred of anything other than full on Labour supporter yesterday on another forum, where I tried to explain why the party is currently unelectable. I compared Lisa Nandy, Dawn Butkler and Diane Abbott, with Kemi Badenoch, who I described as a very intelligent, level headed person.
Because of that, I was told that Kemi was a "fascist footsoldier" and that I was a "gammon".
I think my Labour voting days are well behind me.

[quote TedImgoingmad]**@QuentinBunbury

No need for that!

I'm sorry. You sound as pissed off and jaded as the rest of us.

However, I don't need a lecture on how shit the Tories are. I am the child of immigrants, a coal miner's daughter, and the daughter of a Labour councillor. Labour Party politics ran through my veins, and I voted for them in every election up to 2017/18. AS others have said, the betrayal is now too much.

Why is it that the LGBTQ+ lobby is allowed to be a single issue entity, yet women are constantly told that their fear for their very existence, and placing their first and foremost in their politics, are wrong. That this huge concern should be suppressed because of social care issues, employment issues, this that and the other issue? Don't you see that this is just as sexist as the fact that it is more often than not women who bear the brunt of those problems? Not people who identify as women, women? Because people who identify as women rarely seem that bothered about all the shit work that comes with it, they are in it for the glitter.[/quote]
Could you do me a. favour and instead of writing LGBQT+ write LGB and QT+, please? Because the LGB lobby cleared its desk and went into retirement years ago, once equal marriage was on the cards. It's not LGB people lobbying for anything — unless it's the right not to be shackled to the TQ+

Sexuality has nothing to do with gender issues. It would be enormously helpful if everyone would separate them out. Thanks.

Ereshkigalangcleg, Floisme et al, same here. I still have the same values I had when I voted Labour all through the 80s and 90s and every election since. It's Labour that's shifted, not me.

As well as being persona no grata with various woke TWAW people in my life I'm now persona non grata with another set of former friends, some GC, who see the world as Labour=Good and Conservatives=Tory scum. By spoiling my vote I'm now Tory scum, apparently. Labour is no longer the broad church that it used to be.

@QuentinBunbury

No need for that!

I'm sorry. You sound as pissed off and jaded as the rest of us.

However, I don't need a lecture on how shit the Tories are. I am the child of immigrants, a coal miner's daughter, and the daughter of a Labour councillor. Labour Party politics ran through my veins, and I voted for them in every election up to 2017/18. AS others have said, the betrayal is now too much.

Why is it that the LGBTQ+ lobby is allowed to be a single issue entity, yet women are constantly told that their fear for their very existence, and placing their first and foremost in their politics, are wrong. That this huge concern should be suppressed because of social care issues, employment issues, this that and the other issue? Don't you see that this is just as sexist as the fact that it is more often than not women who bear the brunt of those problems? Not people who identify as women, women? Because people who identify as women rarely seem that bothered about all the shit work that comes with it, they are in it for the glitter.

The Tories are strong on this because of Liz Truss, Kemi Badenoch and opportunistically seizing on identity politics (which is a genuine issue). I don't think they're any less misogynistic as a whole, although they do seem to have a much better record of promoting women.

Yes I can understand that. I don't know what's got into the world to be honest. I used to be extremely politically engaged, now I can barely bring myself to read the news as I feel so powerless. Noone to vote for, no chance of change, and I feel like my values (honesty, doing what's best for the most people even when it's hard, collaboration, inclusivity) are in the minority.

It gives me the rage to think that people think the Conservatives are great

I don’t think the Conservatives are great, I just think that they are the least worse option when it comes to self id, which I am vehemently opposed to. I will never vote for a political party that thinks it can ride roughshod over women’s rights to appeal to a vocal minority.
Sex is biological and binary.

I used to be a lib dem member and say I'd never vote Labour. Now they really are a joke and I've resigned my membership.

I used to be a Labour member and I resigned for the same reason. As I said, the sense of betrayal I feel means I can't support them, even holding my nose.

Are you actually bothering to read what people are saying? Most of us ex-Labour supporters consider ourselves politically homeless. We do not think the Tories are great.
No need for that!
I read a lot of posts on this board about people voting Conservative "because they know what women are". Yes, they know what women are. And they expect us to stick to our role and happily provide unpaid care to the elderly and vulnerable in society, smile and "home school" and work in the pandemic, accept discrimination at work because all the employment tribunals are too expensive, stay in abusive marriages or get shafted by our abusive ex husbands when we can't afford legal representation, not get the medical treatment we need because it's expensive and the NHS doesn't prioritise women, etc etc etc.

I think Labour won't say what women are but also won't put policies in that damage disadvantaged people. So to me it's the lesser of two evils.

I used to be a lib dem member and say I'd never vote Labour. Now they really are a joke and I've resigned my membership.

It's very very sad.

The sense of betrayal is a factor with Labour, this isn't the case with the Tories, I don't expect better.

Nobody in Labour can rest on the laurels of a government that was in power over 10 years ago, and whose own policies and outlook was rejected by Labour members in favour of Momentum driven identity politics. I've got friends who worked at the heart of the last Labour government, and they could not bring themselves to vote for what it has become either.