Girl pushed under train.

Violence against children was normalised within the home. The same as violence against women. Because they had no rights. Basically violence of those with more power over others.

Every society has rules against violence. No society consents to children (or women) been randomly beaten by strangers. It is allowed by those with authority over them. Mostly men, but also women reproducing these patterns of power in the house.

There are plenty of studies showing the damage of violence on children. I don't know where you are trying to get.
Corporal punishment has always been illegal when those who were beaten did not belonged to the category women or children (or other marginalised from society such as prisoners).

You can always justify violence if you want to. Then, you can say the violence exercised by these guys also serves a purpose within their own community.

I am starting from the position that violence is not good. Not something that you like depending who is the one at the receiving end

It was daytime drinking and smoking in a park with babies and prams in tow. It was no place for babies.

There was a culture for a long time where people had babies for benefits.

I presume gangs of aggressive youths like this is a consequence of absent parents.

The question still remains where are the parents of these youths?

If women were the world's criminals and yobs, men would reintroduce gulags and firing squads. (Only they wouldn't because they'd fear us and we'd be the ones in charge. I guess teenage boys like this have their uses as the basic-level enforcers of the patriarchy.)

Violence breeds more violence and capital punishment functions as the ultimate sanction for violence

I don't agree with "putting them down", that might be going slightly too far.

However, I will point out that even using prison is a form of violence. You have to drag people into containment and hold them against their will. That's violence, plain and simple.

Stop using prison because it teaches people that violence is acceptable?

The idea that if you have the death penalty, you are teaching that it's OK to kill is absurd to me. Obviously, you are teaching only that it's OK to kill in very specific circumstances, and that generally it's very bad to kill.

Omg. This is sickening. Do we know how the girl is ? Hope she is ok. Let’s hope they throw away the key with these entitled bullies but somehow I doubt it.

I think it's quite telling that although this has been picked up internationally, it doesn't appear anywhere on RTÉ's website. So the state broadcaster is failing to acknowledge this. How predicable.

We have a serious law and order problem in this country, and until people demand better from the Gardaí (more visible on the streets, more resources) the justice system (harsher sentencing) and the government it's not going to change.

I hope this get reported far and wide and our pathetic government are shamed into seeing what is really going on.

That said, driver-only trains have been common on some lines in England for decades.

In the OP's video I don't blame the guard for not getting involved, his job is to keep the train running safely, not handle a pack of violent scummy kids.

Imo babies were being popped out for the benefits culture
@Redandpink can you expand on that a bit?
I presume that 'popped out' is the phrase that you use for 'giving birth'?
What was it specifically that you were disgusted by?

I do think part of the problem (though it cannot be proved) is the rise and normalisation of pornography, which is becoming more and more extreme and depicting violence and degradation to women. If you asked young women now what ‘normal’ sex is like (e.g. one night stands) I guarantee they will have different answers to even 10 or 20 years ago. Even on mainstream tv, itv and bbc dramas, the storyline so often seems to be violence and rape of women. I think we seriously underestimate hidden links between these things and how they change how we feel, think and behave. So much so they are slowly changing how both men and women experience pleasure/ pain. I can see it happening and it’s terrifying. There is a real issue here that runs deep into ALL society. I remember being 13 (I am 33 now) and being shown a video involving a woman and a horse by boys at school. God knows what girls are subjected to now and how it makes them feel about their place in the world. And boys too who I also feel scared for (as a mum of both a boy and girl). I don’t know what the answer is...

They need identifying and taken to court with their parents, also identified, and made to explain themselves. And that should be televised around their community.

Bloody hell! That is so awful

Shameful

I hope she’s alright and he’s arrested

Will rtft

Absolute gobshites and minimising what they did is appalling. Also it's a 17 year old girl, not a woman. Not that should make any difference but this is a child they are assaulting.

The lad in the red gilet does look shocked and does stay but yet seconds before he was the one lunging/spitting at the girls.

What I am saying is that we have tried violence to stop violence for centuries. Mostly male violence and replicating male patterns of violence. If this worked it would not exist or it would have been moderated.

When we moved away from using corporal punishment, it was never based on hard evidence of what does or doesn't work. It was basically a moral reform. It's "progressive" and "humanitarian" to stop doing it.

I guess I could say, the fact that we used those punishments for hundreds of years is evidence that they must have been useful.

But really of course, we need properly designed studies to work this out, and they wouldn't be allowed to happen.

I remember visiting Dublin in the 00s. I remember seeing something that wasn't quite right. There were gangs of youths hanging around in parks smoking and drinking cans in the middle of the day but what stood out to me the most were prams and babies in tow with them. I presume it was young mothers. I remember being disgusted at it. Imo babies were being popped out for the benefits culture. I presume gangs of youth like this has formed due to a lack of parenting and from parents who don't care about them.

Not everyone and not every young mother is like this. There's probably many great people who became teenage years so I am not putting everyone into the same bracket here.

The comments on one of the articles I read were pretty bad too - one commenter even victim-blamed the girl who fell under the train and said she "should have known better" - better than fucking WHAT? She was running to catch her train, should she have known better than to travel home on the train?

These are misogynistic comments,

Young girls going out and about on their own = too modern, while 'boys will be boys'.

Why are people equating sending yobs to prison with violence? Is this the same redefinition of violence as women's words being violent or misgendering being violent?

@Redandpink

I reckon many of thier mothers were teenage pram pushers only having babies for the money and welfare benefits that goes with it.

I can't believe I just read that. Give your head a wobble. I want to say something much stronger but Mumsnet would chuck me out if I say what I think of you.

This may sound facile, but, as any viewer of Supernanny knows, threatening your child with the naughty step only works if you send them there the first time the do whatever it is you don't want them to do, every time thereafter and for the full time threatened. If prison doesn't work it's because yobs like this aren't sent there for first and early offending, they're not sent for every offence and they do not serve their whole sentences. Prison needs to be a certainty and not a slight possibility in order for it to be any kind of deterrent. Political parties are useless on crime and it is a Red Wall issue.

I don't think that's the right approach nor way to express it Sofia

I clearly said this was 'my perspective'. Empirical claims in this field are very difficult because social and personal behaviour is very complex and you never have all the data. Or the data and intepretation depends on the collector and/or observer.

I have worked with torture cases for years from many different countries. I have a moral stand on this and I know I will always find data from my own perspective. I am very aware of my bias.

What I am saying is that we have tried violence to stop violence for centuries. Mostly male violence and replicating male patterns of violence. If this worked it would not exist or it would have been moderated.

I am in no doubt that violence is mainly male violence and we should look into it with different eyes and try different approaches.