Laurel Hubbard to go to Tokyo

An article in the guardian proper! (Not just the observer)

amp.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2021/jun/22/by-conflating-gender-and-sex-we-undermine-sporting-competition

He quote tweeted a reply I made and also caused a huge pile on of blue haired incels who made it quite clear what a hateful bigot I was 🙄 can't watch the Marvels films with him in in quite the same way

Well in a later tweet he refers to this issue as 'a mouse fart in a hurricane' so I don't think he is thinking of women that much!

Oh damn, just saw that. You're right – he doesn't give a toss

Some of the pro Hubbard responses are so bizarre.

And all this shows there is absolutely nothing to stop any man reducing his testosterone for a year and completing against women. It's so ridiculous, I can barely contemplate people agreeing with it.

Well in a later tweet he refers to this issue as 'a mouse fart in a hurricane' so I don't think he is thinking of women that much!

Actually from the way he's phrased it I think the effect on women is exactly what he's thinking about - it's the replies that are bollocks (to coin a phrase)

I'm really disappointed in Don Cheadle, I really didn't have him down as a misogynist.

I wonder if he comes from a similar school of misogyny as the likes of Owen Jones - where they don't actively hate women, but they do see women as nothing more than support humans for men, who always come first.

The idea that a woman has lost out to Laurel Hubbard, and that a woman might actually be upset and affected by that, just doesn't even occur to these men.

Not an athlete, but high-profile actor Don Cheadle has just quote tweeted Ross Turner's Times column and asked 'for argument's sake' what happens if TW end up dominating women's sport. Mostly irritating replies so far but will see how it develops.

I do think that it’s the big name men (current and former) and the big name former female athletes who need to speak up. It’s too dangerous for the current female athletes.

Dan wooton comes across as very calm and likeable, much better than doing that celebrity stuff on Lorraine.

The silence on Instagram from big names with big following is blissfully silent on Laurel's qualifying.

Whilst it's a shame this isnt being used to highlight the problems, it is wonderful to think that they are staying silent because they do not agree with what is happening.

Hopefully someday soon, people will be able to discuss this matter in public without being threatened with being called transphobic or "cancelled".

fairplayforwomen.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/LBC_laurel-hubbard_210621.m4a

The thing about cross sex hormones in sport is that we've seen it all before, and it was cheating.

Many Eastern Block female athletes who were doped (against their will) died prematurely. There is an excellent FILIA podcast with Sharron Davis talking about it.

They died because oestrogen really matters to female bodies - if we lose it before 45 then NICE want us to have HRT in order to protect us from coronary heart disease, dementia and osteoporosis.

Flo Jo was a tremendous athlete, and doped. Died at 38.

So, whilst, yes, Laurel's inclusion is an outrageous assault on women's sport, I think Laurel highlight's the lack of science supporting the use of cross sex hormones and that none of us would want to see harm done to the trans community through hashtag-be-kind.

I have long been an admirer of the NZ PM but this is absolutely batshit.

I have no problem at all with a trans weighlifter but for them to compete with women is utterly insane and obviously unfair.

It is entirely possible that, if this goes ahead, the wider public will see with their own eyes how very unfair it is and this will lead to a backlash that will hurt and harm trans people.

Even if it doesn't happen immediately it will happen in time because before long, unless it is stopped, all medals, gold, silver and bronze will be awarded to TW and women won't have an icecube in hell's chance of getting anywhere near a medal.

I don't believe that the "kindness" and "equality" mantras will shield TW from the inevitable hostility and ridicule that will result from this and the longer it goes on and the more ridiculous it becomes the worse it will be.

If some evil mastermind wanted to cause divisions in society and incite hatred towards trans people this seems a surefire way to go about it.

Yes It is reported that Jacinda Ardern has come out in support of Hubbard representing NZ at the Olympics. However I wouldn't say it was enthusiastic support, she said "all parties here have simply followed the rules."

Did you read where the New Zealand PM has supported this? IE their FEMALE PM has supported a TW taking the place of a woman?????

When the history books are written I want all of these craven women who walked over other less fortunate women to be named and shamed. And remembered forever as being anti-women.

[quote YellowFish12]@flyingbuttress43 depressing but not surprising

Re testosterone - if TWAW why don’t they have the same testosterone limit as natal women? Is that not another massive cognitive dissidence that sex matters when it’s favourable but doesn’t matter when it’s not?

Can natal women become trans men and and take higher levels of testosterone, and then if they find (a shirt time) later actually they identify as a woman can they be a trans woman and have allowed high levels of testosterone for competition? Or do they get woman rules applied?[/quote]
Not that I’d want someone to risk their health taking testosterone, but it would be interesting to see how Sports Federations would handle a female - to transman - to transwoman situation. It would also run the risk of being abused, like the East German doping scandal.

I'm glad now that the Olympics were postponed - it would have been much easier to brush this under the carpet a year ago.

Sorry Nana Akua is the co host, not a guest. I thought she was fantastic.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=ygyKOgvaWwI

I don’t know if this has been posted already. Is this from Kirsty Gallacher’s show? I’m only watching clips on YouTube. Two women discussing this! I was shocked!

Listened to the link from FPFW this morning on that Radio Kent interview. How Dr Nicola kept her cool against that infuriating bloke I'll never know.

But...but...testosterone!! Like a broken record. I'm surprised he didn't follow it up with a "why can't you just be kind?" tbh. Completely oblivious, clearly done no research and it's just those mean women being mean 😒

I did love the own goal of him saying "I'm no expert", and Dr Nicola's "I am an expert"

I’m hopeful this will be the TRA biggest own goal.

I have had several people message me about it like “how is this happening? It’s clearly unfair” and I’ve been able to say “yes it is! It’s not just LH though, did you know about x y z?”

The testoerone levels nonsense is the absolute definition of heads I win, tails you lose for anyone born in a female body.

Who wins with the IOC rules in this dreadful state?

People with male bodies who transition.
People with male bodies and DSDs
Men who face no changes at all to their sporting category.

Who loses?
Women whose sporting categories now contain male bodies.
People with female bodies and DSDs
People with female bodies who transition.

It’s…almost as if you can reliably split the impacted population into… binary categories 😱

In addition to the very good Ross Tucker article, the Times also reports on the British Olympic Committee timorously asking for more research into the issue:
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www.thetimes.co.uk/article/72d9ec7c-d262-11eb-bd02-4c692e62e3fd?shareToken=2f744517cb92ac299c4ff1a4e4bc14f2