Laurel Hubbard to go to Tokyo

This gives me so much rage.

Argh!!!

Where does it end? People feel like they are entitled to all sorts.

This has really rankled me this morning. We had a session on "inclusion" at work last week, always a good thing apparently. But sometimes exclusion is necessary

I feel incredibly sad for the woman who lost a slot because of this but something on a scale like this needed to happen to show how ridiculous these rules are, transitioning does not take away a male puberty.

Most men get the issue of fairness in sport, they do not need it explained to them.

As unfair as it would be, I hope Hubbard despite being the oldest by a considerable margin wins the whole damn thing

This is unfair. As others have said, not just on other competitors but on the woman who loses her place on the team.

Ah. So reading spoilt/ used to getting what they want.

Never forget that Hubbard was a rich (inherited) middle aged white male who transitioned and then beat young women of colour who grew up in poor, difficult backgrounds and gave their all to their sport. And yet libfems want to cheer on Hubbard as brave and groundbreaking.

No. I won't do it. I don't support this. It's so clearly unfair.

10 nmol/ litre?! Based on what science exactly? Even in women with severe PCOS you usually don't see above 5.

Nice guidelines only suggest treatment for men with testosterone levels below 8nmol/L.

So essentially Laurel could be eligible to compete in the women's category and yet not be considered to have low testosterone for a natal male according to the NHS.

Regardless of what happens in Tokyo, Hubbard is claiming one of two spots for the Oceania region to actually go to Tokyo. That means another woman from the Oceania region has been denied the opportunity to go to the Olympics. That woman could possibly be Iuniarra Sipaia who came 3rd in the Pacific Games behind Hubbard. This woman, or another woman from the Oceania region will not get to say “I am an Olympian”.

These women matter.

Hubbard has had injuries and is getting on in years for an Olympian to say the least.

If Hubbard does not come first this will be 'proof' that it's all fair.

I've seen things about throwing competitions to give ammo to this argument (not this weightlifter, but in general).

How do they define someone who is transitioning from male to female? Is it anyone who says they are?

And what about men with low testosterone who aren't 'transitioning'? Can they also compete against women? If not, why not?

When I think of the collective time and effort all of Hubbard's competitors spent in training in national competitions, being selected for the Olympic squad, making it into the competition team and then this…

And even worse that it's happening in plain sight with the endorsement of the authorities and that they won't be allowed to discuss it (probably). Or, will be reprimanded for turning away or neglecting to wholeheartedly embrace or congratulate Hubbard (as has happened to other podium placers in other sports).

According to their rules. It's a bit real men and others.

Real men have plenty of testosterone.

Anyone who has less than their arbitrary cut off is a non man and they can all compete in the category that is for non men iyswim.

It's such a misogynist view and also one that shows really worrying attitudes about masculinity/ what 'makes a man'.

It's indefensible.

I wonder why it's so high? Maybe female competitors have higher than average levels of testosterone? And they don't want to have to ban them? To do with intersex even though that's a totally different thing?

And we know some countries will stop at nothing for medals. This will be exploited and male children will be harmed. Why don't they seem to be addressing that?

The other thing about this which is closer to home.

The 'normal' testosterone levels were I believe set some decades ago in a study in s different country and when societal norms were different.

I have read things saying they are not actually that reflective of normality.

We know now that hormone changes can come from unexpected things- e.g. men who look after their babies a lot have s drop in testosterone.

And on top of that.

The lower end of the range for men is below the IOC cut off. Men who have normal testosterone levels would be able to compete as women, with no medical intervention, by their rules.

That seems all wrong. What does it say about men with testosterone at the lower end of normal? Not even low. normal

It's a load of shit whichever way you look at it.

Fantastic news.

I hope Zuby can make it too.

I think Sean Ingle is an ally who sees the truth, has often written about this and Semenya but is likely treading a line editorially.

Well at least it will be bright, glaring sunlight...

And this has been raised since they made this rule and yet it stands.

10 nmol/ litre is IOC cut off.

Google (clicked on Bristol hosp randomly)

Reference range:
Adults:
Male 8.7 - 29 nmol/L,
Female 0.2 - 1.7 nmol/L

How can IOC justify their 10 nmol/l threshold?

Even before you get into all the other differences that reducing testosterone does not vanish away.

43 years old. Decade older than the female competitors.

Sean Ingle knows...

www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/dec/07/study-suggests-ioc-adjustment-period-for-trans-women-may-be-too-short

Well now colour me shocked