Laurel Hubbard to go to Tokyo

I hope biological women who have to climb on the podium a step or two below a biological male literally lording it over them in their own category feel able and supported to protest somehow, Black Power salute style. Perhaps bowed head, one arm straight down, the other forearm crossing it horizontally to represent the distaff sign.

@Sexnotgender yes exactly. Various technologies pop up and last for 1 games before everyone works out it’s an unfair advantage.

I’m guessing lots of people (who haven’t done the aforementioned thinking) will see this as similar to Oscar pistourious competing in the “regular” Olympics as a beacon of what can be achieved. Presumably the only thing all Olympian have in common is being extremely competitive so if there is a opportunity for improvement will take it.

I wonder how commentators are going to come at this? Are they really going to seamlessly pretend there's nothing to see here? I'm sure something would register in my voice at least. They'll be pulled into this debate against their will surely, by either going with or it being replaced.

Were, bloody autocorrect.

They conferred too much of an advantage so we’re banned.

Males in female sport though? Totally fine 🙄

There is nothing to stop them. All of them. All sports

At a recent event about women and sports, the point was made that women had been campaigning for a women's competition in a particular cycling event. Tokyo is the first Olympics where there will be a women's class and the US squad of 3 has already opted for an inclusive approach.

Apologies, I don't recall who it was, but it's in WHRC 24 April about women's sport if anyone else recalls it.

Just thinking out loud, but the horrible, cynical part of me wonders if Hubbard will bring home the silver, not the gold.

Olympian, but still obviously in the correct category... right?

Ok, so this is going to be like the shark suits that hit the scene a few Olympics back. They were amazing technology and shaved times right now. But they were a massive disadvantage to the rest of the pool and subsequently banned. And that was just a bloody swimsuit!

And if I was an Olympian (which I am not) and therefore pretty competitive would I not say, I am female but I feel a bit non-binary so I’m going to take testosterone so that I’m somewhere between male and female (per my brain) so that’s why I am taking testosterone - nothing to do with the advantage it gives me in sport????

It sounds flippant but I honestly think most of the problems in thr world arise from people not actually talking things through.

Screen shot of 11 yo time, suspicions that the woman used drugs too:

Obviously not weights but still makes the point.

Just popping this website here; this particular page shows how closely boys who are 11 come to women's world record times and achievements in the 2016 Olympics.

boysvswomen.com/#/world-record

The very fact of hubbard competing is the only thing that is necessary for every country in the world to think, hang on, let's just field men in women's sport.

There is nothing to stop them. All of them. All sports.

Since this topic first reached my attention, the obvious solution has always seemed to me to make the Male category Open (which in fact it often is), and trans people could therefore compete as their gender in that open category.

It's ludicrous that, in effect, it's the Female category that's become Open .

[quote manatsu]@sleepyhead

(unless you're magically able to extend your performance into middle age by......)

But not even extend, Hubbard started in middle age! People don't just take up a sport in middle age and become Olympians. That alone should give everyone pause.[/quote]
Exactly. It's beyond belief that someone becomes able to compete with the elite in their sport when they only took it up in middle age. It's truly exceptional, and yet it seems to happen quite a bit with one particular group. What could the explanation be?

My husband once tried to defend this by saying it's just sport and it doesn't really matter

I wonder if he meant, it's just women's sport, it doesn't really matter. Women are supposed to be nice and forget fair play and medals and allllllllll the money that comes with winning so that some special males don't get their feelings hurt.

My husband once tried to defend this by saying it's just sport and it doesn't really matter

It's just sport - one of the biggest industries in the world economy. A much admired area of human endeavour where individual competitors can pick up multi-million contracts and become a role model to others.

Just an area of life that attracts huge tribalism (local, regional, national) and is a major source of social bonding. Something that occupies a substantial amount of MSM coverage and discussion.

I think we’re all waiting for this really aren’t we? It’s going to take a massive competition like the Olympics to show what’s really happening on the ground, infront of ordinary people who are clueless. It will be an Emperors clothes moment.

But not even extend, Hubbard started in middle age! People don't just take up a sport in middle age and become Olympians. That alone should give everyone pause.

Everything about this is a farce. Everything.

It wouldn't be the end of the world if Hubbard had to compete against males, either...

Mmm-hmm. My husband once tried to defend this by saying it's just sport and it doesn't really matter but didn't have an answer when I asked why it was then so crucial for them to be able to take part in competitive women's sports (I can understand letting kids play noncompetitive sports with their friends)

@sleepyhead

(unless you're magically able to extend your performance into middle age by......)

But not even extend, Hubbard started in middle age! People don't just take up a sport in middle age and become Olympians. That alone should give everyone pause.

www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2019-05/esoe-sfr051619.php

They used their data to establish recommendations on an acceptable testosterone level range for elite female athletes, that takes into account whether the levels are high enough to push women's physiology to be more similar to men's. Levels in healthy men are in the range 7.7 to 29.4 nmol/L and 0 to 1.7 nmol/L in healthy women, so for fairness and considering the over-representation of women with naturally higher levels in sport, the team recommended a maximum testosterone level for female athletic events of 5.0 nmol/L to be used in the IAAF and IOC regulations.

Yes!

Stop searching for the logic in it. There is none.

The limit is simply to allow men to compete in women's sports so as not to discriminate against transwomen.

There is no similar legislation for transmen. They just get told "If it's too hard or too dangerous - tough!"

The only reason this legislation exists is to placate the loud and angry voices of some male bodied people who wish to compete at the most elite levels and choose to do so in womens sports - for whatever reasons they may have!

Justhadathought

Another example of an athlete who should be well past their prime is Natalie Van Gogh who competes in cycling for a Dutch professional team. Natalie is 46 years old.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natalie_van_Gogh

Just so I’m clear - would a woman who had half that level of testosterone be banned for cheating?