Laurel Hubbard to go to Tokyo

I don’t know the full Laurel Hubbard story but is it publicly known is she has fully transitioned with surgery or does she still have male genitalia and testes?

What difference does that make?

No idea bluetongue. Never attempted to find out. Doesn't matter to me, though I think it would male a difference to some (Martina, for eg).

This crazy. One day we’ll look back and wonder how we let this happen (hopefully from a future where it has been regulated out).

I don’t know the full Laurel Hubbard story but is it publicly known is she has fully transitioned with surgery or does she still have male genitalia and testes?

What message does it send that arguably the main sporting body in the world has stated that men who have s testosterone level within the normal range, at the lower end, are seen as the same as women to them?

I mean it's a slap in the face for women but it says a lot about how they view men as well.

The limit set is achievable. I mean, in a way I see why. If you're going to say that males can be in women's sport, the rest is detail. I'm disappointed that Martina Navratilova is trying to find a compromise; that the idea that women's sport is for women has been framed as the extremist position.

The limit set is ridiculous though. It's in the normal range for men!!

The committee was looking for an outcome that included at least some transwomen.

To blame the women on the committee is a bit off. They were in a minority and it's a very sexist environment.

Bottom line is as with everything. Men look at this and think God they must have had a hard time how can we help.

They don't really think about the women at all.

I don’t understand why the scientists on the committee accepted the evidence, it was so poor. I think it shows how committed they are to the ideology and how little regard they have for female athletes. They can’t possibly have assessed that paper as being conclusive.

A third of women on that committee should have been enough to achieve something if they had cared at all. They could have fought it, could have resigned en masse and called a press conference, could have stayed and pressed for exemptions. I'll admit I don't know the story but if they fought it and lost they could tell the story too. Instead we got the 2015 changes and there are an increasing number of voices arguing against any testosterone changes to compete in women's sport - they just want to take it all.

Sorry, ‘who has now done some much better research’

The sports governing bodies were quick to include transwomen in women’s sport based on extremely flimsy evidence.

‘Surprisingly’ they aren’t keen to remove them from women’s sport despite increasing amounts of high quality evidence it’s unfair (and unsafe in contact sports). Some of this new evidence even comes from Joanna Harper, who did the very poor research that was part of the decision to include them in the first place, he has now done some much better research which comes to a different conclusion.

The sports governing bodies want to continue to include transwomen in women’s sports, even through the evidence shows it’s unfair and unsafe. They think the inclusion of people born male is far more important than fairness for women, and more important than the risk of serious injury or even death for female athletes in some sports. They need to stand up and say very clearly that they don’t care about women’s deaths, injuries or even just their right to fair competition, because it’s clear from their actions that this is what they think.

Yes. I read that too - the scientists who advised on the testosterone level to choose. They were told to find a defensible way to make it happen.

It still chokes me. The idea that anyone should be told they have to medicate their testosterone level to do sport (i don't think Caster Semenya or Dutee Chand should have to do it either, separate issue). The complete disregard for women. There were women of colour on that committee. Betrayers.

I read something ages ago about how the starting point for the IOC was not, let's look at this objectively. But, we need to include transgender people, what rules shall we set.

The testosterone level set is within normal range for men. Normal. It's 3x higher than the top of normal range for women. From the off that sounds wrong.

And the bottom line is. Always. The idea/ belief that males can be treated as female in xyz things if they meet some pretty arbitrary test. Why is this even on the table? That standard males can be considered female. Under any circs. At all.

And for all this talk of inclusion, what if trans men?
They won't be able to compete against the women if they have had any hormonal intervention. And presumably wouldn't want to anyway.
They won't stand a chance qualifying in the men's competition.
Where's the inclusion for them???

Yes. There seems to have been, and to continue to be, an assumption that 'inclusion' was the primary goal and that this could only be interpreted one way. You could argue that the most inclusive thing the IOC could do would be to scale the Olympics back to sport that requires minimal infrastructure so that less rich countries can have a more even playing field. Rather than, frankly, shitting on women's sport because they don't give a damn as long as the brown envelopes keep coming.

[quote AngeloMysterioso]It’s in the Times too but I’m not a subscriber...

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/transgender-weightlifter-laurel-hubbard-set-to-make-olympic-history-6jzlhm3vn[/quote]
I've finally learned how to do share-tokens! www.thetimes.co.uk/article/25c3ee2c-aea6-11eb-bda6-057976012425?shareToken=12d060d18dcafc69ca586129b535284d

As for the Telegraph article quoted above, it was a corker, with some useful arguments AND facts (names, dates):

• At the 2018 Commonwealth Games, she began with a weight 7kg heavier than that of her nearest challenger. During the same competition, Hubbard suffered a dislocated elbow, which she feared would be a career-ending injury. It deprived her of the gold medal on the Gold Coast, but it protected weightlifting authorities from the blizzard of protest that such success would have drawn.

• Women are not expected to dominate as weightlifters beyond 30, never mind 40. Hubbard’s seven closest rivals in the Oceania standings have an average age of 24. It does not take much to realise that her supremacy owes less to any quirk of longevity than to a body bulked up through 35 years through natural male hormones. But still no administrators have the gumption to block her, or to suggest that she is denying opportunities to women whose very physiology prevents them from reaching Hubbard’s standard.

• Re: women competing for the Oceania places, Feagaiga Stowers is mentioned above, but the article also suggests: Spare a thought, perhaps, for Australia’s Charisma Amoe-Tarrant, who will miss out on a protected place at the Olympics just because Hubbard is able to continue exploiting a blind spot in the rules.

• Samoa’s prime minister, Tuilaepa Sa’ilele Malielegaoi, has entered the fray, saying: “It is not easy for the female athletes to train all year long, and yet we allow these stupid things to happen.”

(www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics/2021/05/07/laurel-hubbards-olympic-games-spot-affront-fairness/)

Another Mail article

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9553101/Fury-decision-let-transsexual-enter-Tokyo-Olympics.html

I'm almost feeling grateful to Laurel Hubbard for taking the sports authorities at their word and presenting the problem so directly. Tifanny Abreu's likely Olympics place hasn't cut through in anything like the same way. Abreu is 37; the average female Olympic volleyball player is 27.

[quote AngeloMysterioso]Telegraph telling it like it is...

www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics/2021/05/07/laurel-hubbards-olympic-games-spot-affront-fairness/amp/[/quote]
Superb article.

ErrolTheDragon

I agree. When the female’s word records start to look very close to male world records no one will be able to ignore it. By that stage, it will take a great deal to unwind the policies.

Let’s hope it doesn’t get to that point though.

NZ punches well above its weight (population-wise) in many sports, so any Olympic medallist is feted in their homeland.

NZ of course gave women the vote in the 19th century.

Uneasy juxtaposition for the sports-mad media there...