Laurel Hubbard to go to Tokyo

When (I hope) sense and science prevail and women's sport returns to being female only, these records and achievements should be given to the rightful female holders of them, and those women recognised properly.

If however new records in women’s events are achieved by people with an unfair advantage , say a grossly inflated level of testosterone, or a body which has been through male puberty, then not only do they not represent female achievement, but are for all time an unachievable goal for future female athletes who realise that they will never hold a National record, or a World record or stand on an Olympic podium as an Olympic stadium record holder.

How can we say to future athletes, “Sorry, but you do understand that you have lost this competition before you even leave the dressing room .”

DH has just been asking about this. Does anyone have a link to the photo showing a range of TW athletes alongside their female counterparts?
It’s such a stark visual of f what we’re up against.

@Mumoftwoinprimary totally agree. My husband was also a great sports man in his younger years and now, in his 40s still does a bit but clearly isn’t Olympic material! But even now, there are probably a couple of sports that, with a bit of training, he could possibly compete with women, but he would never do that in a million years.
I have two boys and one absolutely loves soccer. At school they have a girls team that plays all year round and an open team that plays in the winter. He’s on the A team for the open (which is only comprised of boys, although the B team has one girl and the C team is about 40% girls), and I suppose, if he was an asshole, he could demand to play on the girls team in the summer as well. Again, he’s not an asshole and so it wouldn’t even occur to him to ask! In fact he’s said, “I wish we could do soccer all year round like the girls”, not “I wish I could play on their team” - partly I assume because he doesn’t want to play with girls (he’s 8 and doesn’t want much to do with girls at this stage) but also because he understands that it would be totally unfair.

So many opportunities in life for Hubbard.

See also having reporting of a traffic accident that seriously injured two people quashed so it didn’t interfere with training.

Quite an influential person.

I also hadn't spotted this before In 2012, she was appointed to the position of Executive Officer for Olympic Weightlifting New Zealand, and in the same year transitioned to female, becoming Laurel Hubbard.

Definitely no conflict of interest there.

Slightly odd thing about that Times article - in a couple of places it says that for most of Laural's life Laural benefited from being male. As if they suddenly don't now.

Hubbard absorbed all these benefits until her mid-30s, equipping her with a visibly different physique to her weightlifting peers

There are thousands - maybe even tens of thousands - of middle aged men in the world who were amazing at a sport as a junior but - for whatever reason - did not make it as a senior.

I’m married to one. We have cabinets full of dusty old trophies, a massive box of international kit in our loft somewhere and my in laws have boxes full of old newspaper articles.

And then dh got on with his life and accepted that it wasn’t to be and did something else instead.

But some men can’t accept that just because you had a spotlight as a child it doesn’t mean that it is yours by right and so, when it dims, they don’t shrug their shoulders and move on. They cheat.

Well said Sophocles and congratulations to those women for their dedication and commitment to reaching the top of their game as sportswomen.

Yes, thank you, Sophocles.

Sophoclesthefox - thank you for this.

Yes, I think it's really important to be very specific and tell the stories of those women who are losing out.

Let's not let them become faceless.

Let’s all take a moment to appreciate the athleticism, sacrifice and hard work of Tracey Lambrechs (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tracey_Lambrechs) and Feagaiga Stowers (samoaglobalnews.com/golden-girl-feagaiga-stowers-bears-the-flag-for-samoa-2019/) who respectively have lost a place on the NZ team, and a Pacific Games medal in order for Hubbard to achieve glory.

Why is fairness only important for Hubbard? These women have directly been deprived of something they have dreamed of, fought for, trained for, put their bodies on the line to achieve, and in Feagaiga’s case, overcome the most atrocious start in life for. The leg up out of poverty, deprivation and violence that her sport should have delivered to her has been less that it should have been, because “inclusion” in sport as it currently operates, isn’t designed to help her any more.

I don’t think I’ve seen anyone support Hubbard, even the most ardent of genderists are understandably silent on this topic. It’s that obviously wrong.

Yep, Sky News Australia is different to the UK version.

It's now seen as a dangerous threat by liberals, kind of like Fox News.

www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/feb/24/sky-news-australia-is-tapping-into-the-global-conspiracy-set-and-its-paying-off

A news channel that doesn't promote liberal viewpoints? Well that's extremism!

The thing with Hubbard is exactly highlighting the issue. I think no one would argue that say Djokovic becoming trans and winning is a surprise - he already beats the men. But someone like Hubbard who is gifted enough to not be completely obscure, but not good enough to be world class either, that is exactly the person who can go from not winning to winning. Tiffany Abreu is another example, good enough to play 2nd division in the men's, but nothing special, then magically breaking records as a woman.

Yes, this is a good point. I see a lot of comments on here along the lines of ‘but what if Usain Bolt decided to identify as a woman? Would that be fair?’ Well, no, but Bolt is in a class of his own. Most men couldn’t beat Bolt either.

Someone in their 40s, who used to compete as a relatively ‘average’ competitor in the men’s events joining the women’s events and frequently beating women in their 20s...well, that makes a more obvious point.

The thing with Hubbard is exactly highlighting the issue. I think no one would argue that say Djokovic becoming trans and winning is a surprise - he already beats the men. But someone like Hubbard who is gifted enough to not be completely obscure, but not good enough to be world class either, that is exactly the person who can go from not winning to winning. Tiffany Abreu is another example, good enough to play 2nd division in the men's, but nothing special, then magically breaking records as a woman.

[quote Zinco]Sky News Australia did a piece on this, also responding to Sarah Silverman:

As far as I can tell Sarah Silverman was giving a straightforward real opinion.

I have enjoyed her stand-up comedy in the past.

Twitter replies were mostly going against her, at least from those I read.

Brilliant video Zinco.

It's possible she is being deliberately provocative.

There's certainly a raft of scientific studies linked on her thread...!

I thought that was a genuine rant by Silverman, and was fucked off by celebs supporting her, (eg hobbit guy) but perhaps...? Hard to tell.

No I didn't Flo perhaps there's hope!