Laurel Hubbard to go to Tokyo

I used to train with a superb male swimmer.

I beat him once.

He got a cramp. Nothing at all to do with my swimming out of my skin.

Aye tits

And can you just imagine the unhappiness there will be when they manage to do just that?

Because they will be competing against their equals again with no unfair advantage.

No one to cast aside because then they really will be ‘just the same’ …

I can't even put in to words how pissed off I am for every female competitor who will be push out of medals by this person. Female athletes/sports players will be wiped off the map before long.

And then reading that we are all one a spectrum like Phelps with his big feet!

A female swimmer with the same body proportions as Phelps would not swim as fast due to all the male physiological advantages - bigger lungs, higher VO2 max, larger heart, wider shoulders, more fast twitch muscles etc.

Even with his morphological advantages, Phelps had some pretty narrow victories, winning the 100m fly by between 0.01 and 0.23 seconds at the 2004, 2008 and 2012 Olympics. Some wins were down to just being better at starts, turns and finishes than his competitors (Cavic actually touched first in the 2008 final, but didn’t hit the timing pad hard enough).

Not sure about the lowering further part. 10 nmol/l (the limit) is at the bottom end of normal male ranges, so I guess, yes, lowering below that would be more unsafe. But a male would end up lower if they'd had surgery. I don't know why the limit was set so high.

The IAAF level is 5 nmol/l.

Male’s free testosterone levels are generally 7.7 to 29.4 nmol/L, whilst most females (including elite female athletes) have much lower levels, in the order of 0.12 to 1.79 nmol/L.

We are continually told a rose by any other name …

Ok. So an unfair advantage cheat is still a cheat then?

Reporters need to stop leaving the discussion at testosterone and start really understanding all the differences between males and females.
You wouldn't think that this would need to be spelt out but I'm sick of reading about keeping testosterone under a level which is still higher than a woman's.
And then reading that we are all one a spectrum like Phelps with his big feet!

@flyingbuttress43 depressing but not surprising

Re testosterone - if TWAW why don’t they have the same testosterone limit as natal women? Is that not another massive cognitive dissidence that sex matters when it’s favourable but doesn’t matter when it’s not?

Can natal women become trans men and and take higher levels of testosterone, and then if they find (a shirt time) later actually they identify as a woman can they be a trans woman and have allowed high levels of testosterone for competition? Or do they get woman rules applied?

Is it not correct that limits of testosterone for TW are 2-3 times that of women? If a woman had the same blood levels they'd be banned for dopping? Lowering the testosterone any further for TW to that of women would be very dangerous physiologically?

At least a factor of 2 over normal female range.

If a woman had the same blood levels, it would pretty much be evidence of doping, but if somehow she had those levels and was healthy (not really possible), then she wouldn't be banned. There's no limit for females. (There is for athletes with XY DSDs like Semenya, who are effectively male).

Not sure about the lowering further part. 10 nmol/l (the limit) is at the bottom end of normal male ranges, so I guess, yes, lowering below that would be more unsafe. But a male would end up lower if they'd had surgery. I don't know why the limit was set so high.

Nicola was so good, honestly how she manages to keep so calm and factual.

I noticed she managed to avoid pronouns too - what a pro!

Is it not correct that limits of testosterone for TW are 2-3 times that of women? If a woman had the same blood levels they'd be banned for dopping? Lowering the testosterone any further for TW to that of women would be very dangerous physiologically?

If so I wish that would get its way into the conversation too.

Don't have time to RTFT, sorry, but this Reddit thread is surprising (Reddit is know for taking a VERY pro-trans stance on most subreddits, heavy TRA moderator presence, etc)

www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/o4iw2z/weightlifter_laurel_hubbard_will_be_first_trans/

www.telegraph.co.uk/womens-sport/2021/06/21/special-report-nursing-mums-forced-choose-olympics-babies/

So the Olympics has to be inclusive when it comes to trans women but refuses to be inclusive when it comes to women. Full page feature in the D Tel sport section where archery competitor and mother of a five month old has spent every evening breast pumping to freeze enough milk for her partner to feed to their daughter while she is in Tokyo competing. The Olympic authorities won't let her take her daughter with her.

There is a picture of the 50 frozen bottles she has so far pumped and she is aiming for around 80 by the time she gets to Tokyo.It is draining on her body because mothers who express more than the baby's need can find it exhausting.

Clear message here - being a man who identifies as a woman the Olympics will welcome you. Being a woman doing what a woman does - tough shit. Knock yourself out lady, see if we care.

That was a great interview with dr nic

She said things which I don’t think the bbc would actually broadcast 6 months ago

Disgraceful

Can someone remind me of the names of the Pacific islander/s who are missing a space because of Hubbard? Thanks

I missed the first minute. Did she get introduced as Doctor Nicola Williams? Her title wasn't used when the interviewer bade her goodbye.

i.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-sports/114420264/samoan-pm-tuilaepa-sailele-malielegaoi-hits-out-at-laurel-hubbard

Excellent interview with Nicola Williams from Fair Play for Women

Fair Play for Women on BBC news channel discussing this now

Fair Play For Women: "We'll be on BBC News channel at 10.30 this morning discussing whether its fair that male-born trans person Laurel Hubbard will be competing in the female weight lifting category at the Olympics."

Where did the other thread go?

I also think it won't be enough. It will wake up a lot of ordinary people but the people in charge seem determined to forge ahead. Nobody cared to do anything when the doping was happening decades ago and athletes like Sharron Davies were severely disadvantaged.

It will probably take a lot more damage being done to women, it will take whole countries and their teams refusing to attend in future games, it will take loss of sponsorship by companies unwilling to partake and it will take people refusing to attend or watch.

The problem is I'm not confident that's how it will play out, I don't know if enough people care about women. What if the outcome is that other countries seek out mediocre males instead and everyone is drip fed until it's normalised and by the 2030s it's become standard that the two competing categories are male and mediocre male (with a smattering of women to uphold the pretence).

Really hope the audience indulge in some very audible booing when Hubbard competes and stands to get their medal.