Britain's youngest trans child

What is wrong with being a female firefighter?

If you were depriving your child of the recommended treatment for a recognised medical condition, you're damned right I would report you to social services.

Is Shiz suggesting that trans is a medical condition? Like diabetes, cancer or obesity that might have preventive measures or is it more like an infection (bacterial?) or is it a genetic disorder like sickle cell? Or an injurious medical condition like a concussion?** Not sure.

The trans people I know are not comfortable being labeled as having a medical condition. It may be offensive (see bold below).

(Defined as: A disease, illness or injury; any physiologic, mental or psychological condition or disorder (e.g., orthopaedic; visual, speech or hearing impairments; cerebral palsy; epilepsy; muscular dystrophy; multiple sclerosis; cancer; coronary artery disease; diabetes; mental retardation; emotional or mental illness; specific learning disabilities; HIV disease; TB; drug addiction; alcoholism). A biological or psychological state which is within the range of normal human variation is not a medical condition

Medical condition is a phrase used in documents for physicians applying to licensing agencies (e.g., state medical boards, malpractice insurance carriers, third-party payers, etc.), which is used to determine a physician’s physical “suitability” to practise medicine.)

I was a tomboy, not into pink or princesses or anything like that, but I felt I was a girl. Gender identity is not the same thing as gender stereotypes - that's why some trans girls are tomboys.

Ok, so for you gender identity is something internal and deeply felt? And it's different from gender stereotypes like pink dresses and hair clips (to re-use my previous examples)? I think we also agree on that - liking particular toys or styles of clothing doesn't make a child a boy or a girl.

What I can't see in this article is anything beyond stereotyping. The parents say that their child must be a trans boy because she likes fire engines and doesn't want pigtails. But that's no different from many many children who don't have a deeply felt sense of gender identity (I'm one of them).

The article does say that Stormy says they are a boy. But four year olds don't have a sense of gender permanence - if you show them a doll with short hair and trousers they say it is a boy; give the same doll a handbag and the same child will say it is now a girl. So how can we distinguish at age 4 between a girl who wants to wear / play with (stereotypically) 'boy' things and a trans boy? I don't think we can?

I completely agree with allowing Stormy to play with whatever toys she likes; wear the clothes and hairstyles that she likes; and potentially use the name that she likes. However, I would stop short of telling her (and her whole social network) that she is actually a boy. That's partly because there is every chance she will grow up to be happy as a not-very-'girly' girl. But also because if she does want to transition when she is older, it is better to have that conversation when she is old enough to understand the realities of transition (medication, side-effects, genital operations, likely infertility etc). If her parents socially transition her now, at age 4, she is likely to believe that she is literally a (cis) boy who will grow up to be a (cis) man. She will then have a huge, unpleasant shock when she realises that without medication she will go through a female puberty and that all the medication and operations in the world won't make her body the same as a (cis) boy's.

There is no logical reason why 50% of young children would be happier in a skirt or dress than trousers and that those children would also prefer to have long hair rather than short. It makes as much sense to expect those options will be embraced by female children as it would those children born January-June rather than July-December

It’s not unusual for a child to want what their sibling has/is doing, especially if the sibling has praise.

Outrageous behaviour in behalf of the parents. Kids want to be everything - change minds every day or several times a day. Let them get on with it. Surely decisions like that are for when kids can make educated informed decisions?? This worlds gone fucking crazy. I fear for my kids future. I really do.

I'm sorry but why isn't this considered as child abuse?

Thanks @Delphinium20 - I'm very proud of her.

To my shame I remember in infants when they had a Fairytale Day at school and she went as a Troll (and I mean a proper Billy Goats Gruff troll not a shiny pink haired troll . I was so worried for her when all the other girls were Cinderella, Belle etc. Thankfully she had a wonderful teacher who asked her what she was and when she told him he beamed at her and said "How wonderful". It's now one of my fondest memories

[quote AryaStarkWolf]@mollythemeerkat as a dog maybe? [/quote]
Or more likely a meerkat?

@mollythemeerkat as a dog maybe?

I wanted to be a boy so badly until around the age of 12 when I accepted that it wasn’t going to change.

Looking back now I don’t think I had transgender issues but I just like boys things so I assumed I had to be a boy to act that way. I love being a female now but still enjoy ‘male’ hobbies.

No the family are not only saying that the child doesn't conform to stereotypes, they are saying that the child never identified as female, they are saying that the child knew their gender from as young as 18 months.

Then the family do not understand child development and language acquisition.

Dr Katie Alcock
"So researchers are clear that we are talking about children’s knowledge of sex, and that this can’t change. A nice quote from a 2003 paper:
“Categorical sex is an essential, immutable attribute of people that is maintained (by self and others) independent of changes in physical appearance (e.g., in hairstyle, clothes, or make-up) and of changes in behaviour (e.g., cross-sex play behaviour or homosexuality).” (from Trautner et al., 2003, in the International Journal of Behavioral Development)
Nevertheless, it takes children some time to work out both whether they themselves are a girl or a boy, and that both they and others cannot change sex. Working out which they are themselves happens earlier, and is based in all the studies that have been done on physical appearance and stereotypes. Have a look at what James, aged 3, has to say on the matter
James is firm that having short hair makes him a boy, and that it also makes other people (and dolls) into boys. My own child aged four was convinced a teenager we knew must be a boy because she had short hair.

Making generalisations is a very useful skill for a baby or child — if they couldn’t make generalisations, they would never be able to work out that a new cat they saw was in fact a cat, or a new apple was just as good to eat as the last one, or a new car is likely also to go places. Children can work out at a very young age that there are men and women, boys and girls, in the world — it’s probably quite useful for them to work this out in the general scheme of things.

So when they see all the girls at nursery wearing pink and having long hair, well, that’s what girls do! And they also realise, from what people are saying, and from how their parents dress them, what toys they are given, and what toys other children who look like them (same clothes, same hair) what they are supposed to like and do based on what sex they are" (continues)
So, based on the idea that girls have long hair and boys have short hair, James is also age-perfect in thinking that when appearance changes, sex changes too. Until the age of about 7 (yes, 7 — in some children it’s older) children think that when something changes its appearance, its underlying reality changes too. This doesn’t just apply to sex, it applies to pretty much everything." (continues)

medium.com/@katieja/young-children-reality-sex-and-gender-3421f4f165f1

My grandson has a baby doll . He loves it and mothers it all the time .He also likes trucks and dinosaurs. All very healthy as far as I am concerned

Or rather ‘fathers it’. Because as he shows looking after babies isn’t exclusively a mother’s role .

When my daughter was about three or four she asked when she was going to grow her willy so she was like her brother. I said you can't because you are a girl. And that was then end of that.

[quote R0wantrees]Let Clothes Be Clothes
"Allies of Let Toys Be Toys, Let Clothes Be Clothes is a grassroots campaign calling on retailers in the UK to end gender stereotyping in the design and marketing of children's clothing, shoes and accessories.

Since children are child-shaped until puberty (with the same measurements on high street sizing charts), we believe separate boys/girls ranges are not only unnecessary, but exploit harmful gender stereotypes that limit children to outdated ideas about the role of men and women in society.

Let Clothes Be Clothes is calling on retailers in the UK to adopt a unisex approach to selling childrenswear, providing real choice, prevent bullying and help build a more equal society."
www.letclothesbeclothes.co.uk/[/quote]
Thanks for this link. I am really challenged buying clothes for my 11 year old. She only ever now wears black leggings and boys tshirts as girls clothes in her age range are so gendered and sadly sexualised.

Ever tried buying a girls top that is not a crop top, without a slogan or frills? ! I've given up.

@Unsure33 that makes more sense, all of this stuff is based on harmful gender stereotypes. Cannot believe how regressive things are, these parents seeming to believe that girls can't be firefighters or police officers

When DD was 4 she was convinced she was a horse. This, and variations on the same theme, are completely normal in 4 year olds. Where on earth are the professionals and why are these parents getting away with child abuse?

Let Clothes Be Clothes
"Allies of Let Toys Be Toys, Let Clothes Be Clothes is a grassroots campaign calling on retailers in the UK to end gender stereotyping in the design and marketing of children's clothing, shoes and accessories.

Since children are child-shaped until puberty (with the same measurements on high street sizing charts), we believe separate boys/girls ranges are not only unnecessary, but exploit harmful gender stereotypes that limit children to outdated ideas about the role of men and women in society.

Let Clothes Be Clothes is calling on retailers in the UK to adopt a unisex approach to selling childrenswear, providing real choice, prevent bullying and help build a more equal society."
www.letclothesbeclothes.co.uk/

YES! Boys jeans always have pockets. Girls rarely do. But instead fake pockets?? Who wants fake pockets??
'Boys' clothes are generally more comfortable and practical. I nearly always buy my daughter boys jeans. She has no idea they're boys and would be quite disappointed to find out 'girls' ones don't usually have pockets.

I had a boyfriend once who borrowed his sister's jeans his were probably in the wash and he couldn't understand why the pockets wouldn't actually 'work'. For some unfathomable reason he decided to rip the pockets open, and discovered that this obviously didn't make them actual pockets 🤔

He clearly wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer but he had been raised to know that wearing his sisters jeans did not make him a woman! Pity for this poor child that it was more important to the parents to be woke than get this message across.

My grandson has a baby doll . He loves it and mothers it all the time .He also likes trucks and dinosaurs. All very healthy as far as I am concerned.