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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Britain's youngest trans child

513 replies

poshme · 05/05/2021 11:36

Article in daily fail (sorry)

4 year old female twin says she is a boy (like her twin brother) and expresses interest in firefighters & police officers & doesn't like pigtails.

So the parents are transitioning their 4 year old and saying they have grown up conversations about gender with them.

Sigh.

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SuperShe · 12/05/2021 12:21

Oops. The above is not strictly true. At bath time, DS still likes to take some of the Hatchimal figures into the bath as they change colours in the water. Grin

SuperShe · 12/05/2021 12:17

All this excessive need to quickly label children as “transgender” will be placing parents in an extremely difficult position whenever a child shows interest in playing with toys or colours traditionally viewed for their opposite gender.
Parents will be less keen on allowing their child to explore their interests, especially publicly, due to the fear that others (i.e. school, family, other professionals) will want to label their child as transgender and disagreeing will be viewed as transphobic.

Referring to my own experience, DS growing up, wasn’t interested in cars, trains etc. He had an interest for numbers, electronics, plush toys, tv character toys etc. At around 6, he took an interest in Hatchimal toys (targeted at girls) and had acquired quite a collection of the figures.
For his 6th birthday, he wanted talking Hatchimal toys. OH queried if we should continue allowing him to play with “girly toys.” I replied, would you rather we said no to him, and in doing so, send the clear message that boys must not play with “girly toys” and thereby reinforcing that such a thing exists? And make him worry about the authenticity of his identity? Or would you rather teach him there is no such thing as “girly toys” and he can play with that ever he likes? And thankfully, OH understood and did not raise this as a concern again.

Around that same age, DS went through a stage where he liked pink Grin he would pick out pink items at the supermarket; i.e. pink ball, pink bubble blower.
For school, DS needed a lunchbox and he chose a pink and purple lunchbox. Now, here is where I have to be honest and say I got concerned. Not because I was worried he liked pink/purple, but worried how his preference for these colours would be construed by the school. There had been a huge push on LGBTQ that year, with the school running the “No outsiders” programme and I was concerned he would be questioned in school about his “preference.” With this in mind, I pointed out the green/blue lunchbox and asked DS if he would rather get that as blue is his fave colour Blush. (I know, I know. I’m not happy I felt the need to do that). And he chose blue. If he had selected the pink one, I would’ve had to get that, and then would’ve been continuously worried about what others were saying to him or asking him at school. As the ethos at school nowadays is no longer teaching children they can play with whatever they want, dress however they want. Rather, it is more “Oh you like pink? Do you think you might be a girl?” Hmm DS is now 8 and no longer interested in pink or hatchimals.

We appear to have regressed back to sexist stereotypical views that girls like pink and dolls and boys like blue and trucks. And when a child does not conform to these stereotypes, even if for a short period of time, apparently these are signs that a child is transgender. And parents failing to immediately agree or force this gender identity ideology on their child are accused of failing to validate the child’s “feelings” and are called transphobic.

Deliriumoftheendless · 12/05/2021 11:17

I think a lot of this will be down to one twin wishing to emulate the favoured twin, who just happens to be of the opposite sex.

toffeebutterpopcorn · 12/05/2021 11:06

I feel very uneasy that the parents and the child are in the National (and therefore international) press. To what end?

The media circus is terribly dangerous - you may the ‘the darling’ one day but what happens when it is decided that you are actually ‘the devil’.

It reminds me of a few ‘child celebs’ (some adults too - Jocelyn Wildenstein comes to mind) who were feted when little, pretty and/or cute, then grew up to be ... well pretty messed up in some cases. Living live on social media for the ♥️s - that’s no ‘balanced’ life is it?

endofthelinefinally · 12/05/2021 10:50

This is going to turn out to be a massive disaster for so many children and young people. It is large scale manipulation of impressionable kids and parents/adults who either wilfully ignore, or know nothing about, normal child development. You see it a lot on here in terms of parents wondering why their 2 year old behaves like a normal 2 year old and not a 6 year old, but this kind of situation described here is just appalling.

TableFlowerss · 12/05/2021 10:30

@toffeebutterpopcorn

I’m tall, that’s how it is.

When I was younger I wanted to be smaller so that I didn’t stand out so much (I was a small child and started school a early so I was always the tiddler in the class until I got to about 15 then I got tall and add to that rather large boobs - I wanted to disappear).

I’m sure if I told my parents that I was desperate to be small, they would have said ‘tough luck, what can you do, thems the breaks, live with it...’.

I’m sure if you could be transported in to time and be a child now, you’d be told that ‘Yes yes you can be small. You can be what you want, regardless of the definition of a word. If you want to be small then no one has the right to tell you that you are anything but small....’ you were born in the wrong era!
AfternoonToffee · 12/05/2021 10:27

@bluebluezoo

Yep, you now have a daughter. Replace everything he owns with fluffy pink tat

Reported for misgendering.

Huh? No one's been misgendered.

Unless it is satire, who knows anymore.

bluebluezoo · 12/05/2021 10:00

Yep, you now have a daughter. Replace everything he owns with fluffy pink tat

Reported for misgendering.

NewlyGranny · 12/05/2021 09:53

Who polices their 4-year-old's fantasy play?!

I meet a lot of littles in my line of work - or I did before Covid stopped me temporarily - and on a single day I met a girl who confided that she was really a fairy and a boy who was really a tiger. Add to that the rôle play that encourages children to pop on a mask and be a wolf or a little pig, or to curl up and be LRRH's basket full of goodies for Grandma (yes, I've seen this) and you have a fertile field to harvest!

I do wonder whether some parents are just way too literal...

uhohbrusselsprouts · 12/05/2021 09:43

I saw the original post by the father on LinkedIn, but didn't dare comment in case my employer saw it. But, he has a number of comments on that post praising him about how great he is and what a wonderful father. I would love to have called him out on his child abuse but couldn't risk it! I guess that's why he chose LinkedIn as his media outlet - knowing people who think he is in the wrong can't call him out on it.

IndecentCakes · 12/05/2021 09:41

I'd not have a problem if it had persisted in my adult boys. Then we'd need to look at it further. A tiny child? No, that's idiotic.

PegPeople · 12/05/2021 09:36

Fuck's sake. My 4 year old boy watched Barbie movies the other day, and picked out pink socks. Should we begin 'transitioning'?

The biggest problem with all of this other than the child's life being immeasurably fucked up is that it genuinely always boils down to something like this. In every story I've ever seen or read of a small child 'transitioning' it's always been because they liked pink or wanted to play with dolls or they liked football and wanted short hair.

It's almost laughable that in every case the parents don't seem to comprehend the fact their child only wants to change gender because they don't fit the parents self imposed stereotypes.

Emmelina · 12/05/2021 09:35

@IndecentCakes

Fuck's sake. My 4 year old boy watched Barbie movies the other day, and picked out pink socks. Should we begin 'transitioning'? Another of my sons loved shiny jewellery at 4-6 years and is now a strapping heterosexual 19 y/old.
Yep, you now have a daughter. Replace everything he owns with fluffy pink tat Wink
IndecentCakes · 12/05/2021 09:33

Fuck's sake. My 4 year old boy watched Barbie movies the other day, and picked out pink socks. Should we begin 'transitioning'?
Another of my sons loved shiny jewellery at 4-6 years and is now a strapping heterosexual 19 y/old.

quiteathome · 12/05/2021 09:26

Parents don't need to say no, but they don't need to say yes either. They just need to let the child be themselve. And you don't need to pigeonhole your child into a trans label or even a boy/ girl label for that.

toffeebutterpopcorn · 12/05/2021 08:57

So if the child decided - at 4 - that they are XYZ and the parent says ‘no’, what how can they argue this?

NecessaryScene1 · 12/05/2021 08:32

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Delphinium20 · 11/05/2021 20:51

@quiteathome

My children like playing hospitals. Should anyone like an operation to validate their feelings in this just pm me.
Grin
quiteathome · 11/05/2021 20:21

My children like playing hospitals. Should anyone like an operation to validate their feelings in this just pm me.

BessieWallisWarfield · 11/05/2021 20:18

I'd be interested to know how the enthusiasts here would feel about the situation if this four year old had, instead, declared that she believed strongly in God and wanted to be a nun?

Sign her up immediately for holy orders, encourage her to take her vows?

Or wait and see?

SunsetBeetch · 11/05/2021 18:43

@NewlyGranny

I knew a little tacker once who was painted into a corner by a questioning adult figure: a headteacher in this case. Child had some marks on his back that were spotted when he was changing for PE. Teacher was concerned and alerted head who was safeguarding lead. Head looked at the marks and interpreted them as injuries from a beating with a belt. The child said he had no idea what they were. Head proceeded to question and harangue child in a persistent and leading way, i.e. "I know daddy has used his belt to hit you, you mustn't lie about it."

Child eventually admits that yes, the marks are from Daddy's belt. Headteacher then calls mum and SS and they all meet up at the child's GP. GP takes one look and declares the marks to be unmistakeable insect bites. Everyone goes home.

Mother to child: Why did you tell headteacher daddy hit you with his belt?!

Child to mother: I knew I wasn't going to get out of that office until I agreed with what head said.

We need to listen hard to what children tell us but we also need to make sure we aren't trapping children into telling us what they might think we want to hear.

Let children play. Let children be children. Let children breathe. Let children learn and grow.

Great post.
LostToucan · 11/05/2021 18:40

I had one that filled a pink sparkly dolls pram with toy cars and pushed it around. Was he identifying as non binary?

Erikrie · 11/05/2021 18:30

My ds had long blonde ringlets at that age. He also liked wearing his sister's clothes. Did that mean he was identifying as a girl? And I failed to validate him 😲

DdraigGoch · 11/05/2021 18:27

@Tibtom

It always amazes me how advanced the reported language of these 2,3 or 4 year olds is.
It's just like when you hear of (or see videos of) a small child going on a political rant. Very obviously been fed their parents' views.
Delphinium20 · 11/05/2021 17:12

At 4 my DD was utterly sweet, but quite wrong about all kinds of human categories. Her aunts with no kids were her "sisters". Her aunt with kids was "her mom." Her uncle's were "daddy's friends" and older females were all "grandmas." Funny, there was only one "grandpa." Teenage girls were all "teachers."

She was at times a bird, a mermaid and a fairy. She also believed babies were purchased at the store and the idea of one being in a woman's belly was "oh so silly. That's NOT true!"

Imagine if we accepted and then believed her take on all these things - that her "truth" was accurate!

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