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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Trans Widows Escape Committee 5: And so it continues...

983 replies

TinselAngel · 04/05/2021 21:25

Welcome to thread 5. A virtual prize for anyone who can guess the geeky sci fi reference in the thread title.

This is a support area for women who are, or have been, in unhappy relationships with male partners who are transitioning, or exploring their "gender identity"

If you are in that position-

  1. You are not alone
  2. It is not a situation that you should be expected to tolerate, let alone celebrate.
  3. There is always a way out, if you want it. The thread is called Escape Committee for that reason

Remember: women talking to each other is a powerful weapon!

In four years we have gone from starting the first thread, to launching a website, to be invited to give evidence to a government inquiry, which is pretty spectacular when you think about it.

Thanks to all the women who have told their stories and particularly to those who have stuck around to help others. Thanks also to @socialworker222 who remains nice cop, to my stern cop.

Do say hello to start the thread off!

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Bunshine · 17/06/2023 17:42

@TookABigL

I am also a transwidow, and finally being able to see what my ex had become, not who he had been, was one of the most painful realisations of my life, but also liberating in the end. Because there was no longer any hope, and that was freeing. It took years, he unburdened himself of his sexual proclivities shortly after we were married, and this was 2012, when there simply weren't resources for trans widows like there are now.

What finally did it is that enough circumstances and heartaches stacked up so that I could see something like this; there were things my husband wasn't capable of, or at least had enough moral barriers in place to stop himself from doing without serious consideration, that this new persona not only didn't have, but revelled in: infidelity, sexual coercion, malicious manipulation, outright lying, creepy mimicry, and a kind of shallowness that seemed both affected and pathological at the same time.

It took me a long time to realise that, no matter who he had been before, something had taken hold of him deeply, and he was consumed. The person I knew before began to appear less and less as this compulsion overcame him, and he WELCOMED it. There was nothing I could do to stop it (or at least try to) that didn't cause me more pain than it caused him, because he was riding a dopamine high. Who I knew him to be just wasn't there anymore, and dealing with that realisation while still seeing him in person was a complicated, cataclysmic grief.

I say all this because, if I had had the resources that are available now, if I have been able to hear so many other womens' stories, through this resource and others, I think I would have been better able to see what was coming down the pipeline in the early days, and, even if logistically it would have taken time to leave, I would have been able to disengage myself emotionally from him enough so that I wouldn't have been so broken down and scarred by the time I finally left. What I mean is that it was my continued attempts to fight for who he was that hurt me the most in the end. It's a bitter pill, but the sooner you are able to get free emotionally (and I believe sex is included in that), the sooner you will be able to gain clarity, independence, freedom, and, after a pile of work that in my experience was both grueling and so very worth it, peace. It's the initial jump that's the hardest part.

WalkedAway · 17/06/2023 16:04

Of course it's not easy to let go. I was married for 32 years when the trans bomb was dropped. And you won't let go until you have convinced yourself that staying is worse than letting go. No one of us can convince you to let go now; we can only tell you that you will do less damage to yourself, and give him less opportunity to do damage to you, by leaving now.

Clearly you are looking for a reason not to let go, and trying to bargain your way out of "having" to, hence your reach for the rationalization "addiction can be overcome." But addiction can only be overcome if the addict wants to stop, and no one but the addict can make that choice and do the work to make it happen. You cannot do it for him. So what exactly is it you will "try"? How exactly are you going to make him want to give up his addiction? The families of addicts of all kinds can tell you it's futile. All you can do is tell him that you believe he has acquired an unhealthy addiction, and that although you love him, you cannot stand by and watch him as he destroys himself and damages you.

TinselAngel · 17/06/2023 16:04

TookABigL · 17/06/2023 11:45

Yes, I know I would never choose to involve myself with this new version of him—even without the crazy appearance, his new personality is morally bankrupt. He’s duplicitous, manipulative, conniving, cheating, and, as you said, an addict.

But I know that the part of me that wants to try is motivated by the fact that addiction can be overcome. I can’t seem to convince myself that this is the “real him”. I know the real him, the one not driven by compulsion and lunacy. And he was a wonderful person. How can I possibly give that up? I don’t know how to let go.

Even if he did desist (highly unlikely). How would you ever trust him again?

Also addicts have to want to stop. Men who trans have no reason these days to want to stop because it's a ticket to "stunning and brave" higher status.

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Italiangreyhound · 17/06/2023 16:03

TheClogLady fantastic advice. I know three or four women who were involved with alcoholics, one referee to drink as his other woman. She felt even if he got sober, he could always slip and blame her. So, very hard.

Thank you for sharing your hard-eon wisdom. Xx

TookABigL · 17/06/2023 11:45

Yes, I know I would never choose to involve myself with this new version of him—even without the crazy appearance, his new personality is morally bankrupt. He’s duplicitous, manipulative, conniving, cheating, and, as you said, an addict.

But I know that the part of me that wants to try is motivated by the fact that addiction can be overcome. I can’t seem to convince myself that this is the “real him”. I know the real him, the one not driven by compulsion and lunacy. And he was a wonderful person. How can I possibly give that up? I don’t know how to let go.

WalkedAway · 16/06/2023 16:35

Took a Big L:

I am a transwidow. I felt exactly the feelings you are feeling. The various feelings you are having have been widely felt among those of us with partners/spouses like yours who began engaging in cross-dressing for sexual gratification and then announced they were trans. The Clog Lady is right: their behavior is addictive, and escalates; they are ever on the search for the next big high. He is likely feeding off your femininity and femaleness, like a vampire, while at the same time resenting you because you are the woman he wishes he could be (and thus the term "cis privilege").

From hard experience I tell you this: You cannot fix him. You cannot fix him whether by reasoned talk or by waiting for him to come to his senses again. You cannot control the situation by participating in it. He is no longer who he was. He is no longer who he was and you cannot turn back the clock. He is now who he is, and even if by some miracle (that's how unlikely it is) he were to come out the other side (I use the subjunctive tense to indicate he will not), he would not ever be again who he was when you fell in love with him. The relationship you had is over. You must do as The Clog Lady says, and consider whether if you met him as he is now, with his crazy bangs and his smudged eyeliner and his fake voice, you would choose to be in a relationship with him.

I know this is not an easy leap of logic to make. I know it isn't easy to accept. But it is necessary for you, your future, and your sanity.

From my own experience, I cannot stress enough that you must stop having sex with him. You are a prop in his sexual activities, not a partner. He is using you as a conduit to access female sexual response, which he will then ape in his solitary masturbatory fantasies. He may put pressure on you to act the "man" to his "woman" or the "lesbian" to his "lesbian." You may without realizing it fall into the damaging mindset of learning to disengage while having sex with him, in order not to experience the dehumanizing effects of being treated like an object or subjecting yourself to his views of sex and his various acts.

You have done the first hard thing by kicking him out. Now you must do the next hard thing and go no contact.

TheClogLady · 16/06/2023 11:26

Regardless of the specific circumstances finding it hard to walk away from a relationship that used to be good is a fairly universal experience, no?
It’s pretty much the same for women married to serial adulterers, women married to alcoholics, women married to gamblers that lose the family home on a horse etc.

The heterosexual men who traditionally trans in midlife (although the phenomenon seems to be increasingly present in younger men too) are addicted to the idea of themselves as women. Like other addicts their behaviours escalate, sometimes the addiction trajectory is interrupted by periods of time ‘on the wagon’ followed by relapse. This is exhausting for the people who love them, especially partners, some of whom end up emulating the addicts behaviours themselves.

I’m not a transwidow, but I am the ex wife of an alcoholic. I still love the man he was before the addiction took hold of him, but I have made peace with the idea that the man I loved has gone forever, and the man he is now is not a man I would’ve chosen to enter a relationship with.

if you met your partner as he is now, would you enter a relationship with him? Would you date him, move in with him, marry him, plan a future life with the person you see in front of you today?
From your post I’m going to assume your answer is ‘Fuck no, I wouldn’t even give him my real phone number’.

Where does your compulsion to Fix the Unfixable Man stem from? Most women have it to a certain extent (female socialisation!) but some of us have it more than others, to the point it becomes a self harming behaviour.
It’s often a manifestation of what we witnessed growing up, habitually reinforced in our social interactions until we believe it be natural.

if you can find the roots of YOUR feelings and behaviours with a counsellor (NOT a couples counsellor!) you will likely find it much easier to let this man go.

He doesn’t want you to save him, he’s likely utterly enchanted with the ‘woman’ he believes himself to be, so for you to ‘save him’ would be to destroy his dream.
He’s far more likely to be resentful towards you than thankful.

Competing with the Other Woman is never good for our own emotional wellbeing, even if we ‘win’ the ‘prize’ (a cheating man) has become too poisonous to keep hold of for long.
When the ‘Other Woman’ is your man’s own fantasy self, what sort of prize would you get even if you ‘won’?

I recommend you start a thread over on the relationships board because sometimes you just need to hear a bunch of women saying ‘LTB’ (‘Leave the Bastard’) to make what you already know inside your own head and feel inside your own heart real enough to act on.

Think of who you were when you first met him - if Current You could talk to Old You, what would you tell her?

TookABigL · 16/06/2023 07:46

I’m sorry if I’m using this forum incorrectly, I’m new here. I’m in a bad place where I just don’t know what the fuck I’m doing right now.

My ex “came out” as trans (I caught him using my underwear for sexual reasons) a year ago. I caught him on Grindr last December (2022). We waffled between staying together or not until March, when he cheated on me again. I kicked him out, but we’re still seeing each other and having sex.

I am deeply, deeply, disturbed by AGP and his actions. This should make it easy to let go, but I just can’t. We were together for 8 years where he was totally normal. He was happy, driven, creative, charming, and just an incredibly well-rounded human. This AGP stuff came out of nowhere and it feels like a completely different person. I have such a strong, deep compulsion to fix him, to get the old version of him back.

He’s just crazy now. He looks crazy. He cut his own bangs and coupled with the smudged eyeliner and the awful fake voice, it makes him look mentally ill. I can’t accept that this is him. There has to be sanity in there somewhere. I want to save him so badly, but I know he doesn’t want to be saved. I just don’t know what to do, I don’t know why I’m putting myself through this.

socialworker222 · 06/06/2023 21:52

SouthernTW · 04/06/2023 20:48

Definitely out the other side. Haven't seen the ex in almost two years. He pays what he's supposed to do. That's all I care about at this point.

Always around but being overly cautious about online presence.

Really glad to hear this. Sounds like you got some distance and freedom. And good he pays. I hope life is feeling a bit better.

WTF475878237NC · 05/06/2023 21:15

Fantastic trailer.

TinselAngel · 05/06/2023 20:49

SouthernTW · 04/06/2023 20:48

Definitely out the other side. Haven't seen the ex in almost two years. He pays what he's supposed to do. That's all I care about at this point.

Always around but being overly cautious about online presence.

Thanks for checking in. Good to hear you're doing ok x

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TinselAngel · 05/06/2023 20:49

TheClogLady · 05/06/2023 11:22

Are you going to be animated, Tinsel? Because I will donate for that alone!

I am! You can see me in the latest trailer!

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TheClogLady · 05/06/2023 11:22

Are you going to be animated, Tinsel? Because I will donate for that alone!

IcakethereforeIam · 05/06/2023 08:57

Ooh, a Star Trek title? Make it so.

SouthernTW · 04/06/2023 20:48

Definitely out the other side. Haven't seen the ex in almost two years. He pays what he's supposed to do. That's all I care about at this point.

Always around but being overly cautious about online presence.

TinselAngel · 04/06/2023 20:23

New trailer for the upcoming trans widows film.

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TinselAngel · 24/05/2023 14:00

I've got a Star Trek title planned for the next thread actually, not that anybody cares!

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TinselAngel · 24/05/2023 13:54

You're very late in the day, and it was Babylon 5!

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Grammarnut · 24/05/2023 13:48

TinselAngel · 09/05/2021 21:30

This time next year Southern you'll be one of those women who made it out the other side Thanks

Literally nobody cares about my sci-fi thread titles do they? Peasants Grin

It's Star Trek, I think.

socialworker222 · 22/05/2023 20:30

The Looking Glass trailer is beautifully put together.

Scientistranswidow · 19/05/2023 23:35

And the film WILL be released soon. Fantastic news! Thank you so much and thank Vaishnavi Sundar. She makes very elegant films: "Dysphoric: fleeing womanhood like a house on fire" was excellent.

TinselAngel · 19/05/2023 21:10

Merch to support the upcoming Trans Widow film

twitter.com/womensrightsnet/status/1659650665805651984?s=46&t=PSGltfjrMyZmBtYq2-AVIQ

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socialworker222 · 17/05/2023 21:56

Kate Kate I hope you can think about whether you have to stay. If your relationship and even friendship is so damaged, can you start to plan an alternative future? It's disrespectful for him not to stop these behaviours if you object and I'm not sure how you will manage to live with them/ignore them.

Scientistranswidow · 16/05/2023 13:09

@Katekate1991 I am so glad that you are writing down what you saw and heard. This is your record of your observations. You can keep access to this for divorce proceedings.

You are documenting the behaviour of a narcissist, a controlling and deeply disturbed man.
Please get away from him to save yourself and your DD. There is lots of good advice here.

Katekate1991 · 15/05/2023 23:00

Thank you for your message. He keeps denying calling himself mummy he has said other odd stuff though. He said he has always wanted to get pregnant then there was him saying im not giving birth here in a heated row he goes and its nothing to do with me being pregnant. Then month ons claims its sarcasm. On top of all this creepy stuff he keeps referring to himself as mummy when I call him up on it he gets nasty. That may be a good idea contacting the midwife or healthworker. I was going to tell social services but a lot of said they wont do anything.