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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Trans Widows Escape Committee 5: And so it continues...

983 replies

TinselAngel · 04/05/2021 21:25

Welcome to thread 5. A virtual prize for anyone who can guess the geeky sci fi reference in the thread title.

This is a support area for women who are, or have been, in unhappy relationships with male partners who are transitioning, or exploring their "gender identity"

If you are in that position-

  1. You are not alone
  2. It is not a situation that you should be expected to tolerate, let alone celebrate.
  3. There is always a way out, if you want it. The thread is called Escape Committee for that reason

Remember: women talking to each other is a powerful weapon!

In four years we have gone from starting the first thread, to launching a website, to be invited to give evidence to a government inquiry, which is pretty spectacular when you think about it.

Thanks to all the women who have told their stories and particularly to those who have stuck around to help others. Thanks also to @socialworker222 who remains nice cop, to my stern cop.

Do say hello to start the thread off!

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Cholumenosoapy · 19/06/2023 19:40

Thanks so much for the support on this thread. I can’t tell you how much it means to me. ❤️

ScrollingLeaves · 19/06/2023 18:43

Cholumenosoapy · Today 13:55
There’s absolutely nothing in my son’s past that could in any way account for his current state and believe me, I’ve thought about it endlessly. In some respects, I have wished there was something and then the life shattering announcement he made wouldn’t have been such a shock. I have a recurring theme of shock, when I think about the situation.

I am so sorry, Cholumensoapy it must be so very difficult.

Cholumenosoapy · 19/06/2023 18:33

Thanks @socialworker222 your words give me comfort.

socialworker222 · 19/06/2023 16:08

Great advice from ClogLady on this Cholumenosoapy. Sorry to hear you've had such devastating news. The ripples around a family are profound and long-lasting, and little-recognized by the outside world busy celebrating the authentic brave person at the centre.
You've done a really good job of not taking his side, reaching out to your DIL, and being open and direct. My MIL was not, and continues to pretend nothing really significant happened to my family, which has alienated me from her. Financial help and an even-handed empathy will stand you in good stead, but you can only wait as your DIL will be going through hell, and keep reiterating those kind messages to her.
It must be very upsetting for you with grandchildren. It's good you're putting in place some boundaries with your son, and I hope you benefit from getting some support yourself as this is a major loss with many elements, for you.

socialworker222 · 19/06/2023 16:02

Big L you've had some great advice. A lot of partners understand the hope that this is an illness/addiction that can be cured and the original person restored. You have to decide whether to wait for that to happen, get him or both of you to get some help, or whether you are wasting your time by staying. If he doesn't really want this and wants to get help, you might want to see signs of him taking action. I'd worry that he is trying to tie you in with suggestions that he is ill and can't manage this himself. Maybe you should set some boundaries about sex, and your involvement in his behaviour so that you protect yourself, and have a private deadline at which point you consider making plans to leave. And as usual I'd encourage you to find out your rights financially and legally so that you have some background plans in place if you do decide to leave. If it all turns out okay, you've lost nothing, but most on these threads sadly have not seen these situations reverse. Good luck.

Cholumenosoapy · 19/06/2023 13:55

There’s absolutely nothing in my son’s past that could in any way account for his current state and believe me, I’ve thought about it endlessly. In some respects, I have wished there was something and then the life shattering announcement he made wouldn’t have been such a shock. I have a recurring theme of shock, when I think about the situation.

ScrollingLeaves · 19/06/2023 10:40

Is there anything these men share in common in the way of early experiences that may relate to the onset of this fetishistic compulsion/dillusional state of mind?

Cholumenosoapy · 19/06/2023 03:47

SouthernTW · 18/06/2023 21:39

@Cholumenosoapy - please do what you can to prioritize the kids. Be there for them as much as you can. My children lost not only a father, but his entire side of the family.

To be fair to my son, he’s made it very clear all round that he still wants to be a big part of his children’s lives. I very much want to see my grandchildren and to achieve this I will have to see him regularly as well. That’s the hard part but I shall put my big girl pants on and be strong. That’s the plan anyway.

Cholumenosoapy · 19/06/2023 03:44

TinselAngel · 18/06/2023 20:27

I was offish with my ex MIL after I left my ex (which was when he decided to transition). I blamed ex FIL for a lot of why my ex turned out how he did. And ex MIL for not intervening between them more effectively.

I came around though and we've maintained friendly relations ever since. So there's every chance the situation might change for you Cholumenosoapy

Thanks @TinselAngel . I can quite see why my DIL is distant from me. I really made an effort to reach out to her but I’ve subsequently given her the space she clearly needs. It doesn’t help that they live 200 miles from us.

MissingLesbianSpaces · 19/06/2023 01:03

If you do write a will, leave your son $1 so he cannot contest it!

SouthernTW · 18/06/2023 21:39

@Cholumenosoapy - please do what you can to prioritize the kids. Be there for them as much as you can. My children lost not only a father, but his entire side of the family.

TinselAngel · 18/06/2023 20:27

I was offish with my ex MIL after I left my ex (which was when he decided to transition). I blamed ex FIL for a lot of why my ex turned out how he did. And ex MIL for not intervening between them more effectively.

I came around though and we've maintained friendly relations ever since. So there's every chance the situation might change for you Cholumenosoapy

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Cholumenosoapy · 18/06/2023 18:29

Just to add @TheClogLady , the forums for support are full of never ending, heartbreaking stories. I’ve read so many really awful accounts of how this transgender phenomenon affects parents, and apart from telling each other, we understand, it’s bloody hopeless. No one has any answers, you just read the same painful stories over and over. Nothing changes, you’re still the parent of a transgender child. 😭

TheClogLady · 18/06/2023 13:57

Gender ideology ruins families in all directions - it’s so destructive 😢

Cholumenosoapy · 18/06/2023 13:45

Thanks @TheClogLady . I’ve already done what you suggest regarding my DIL. I’ve already been in contact with several groups. I’ve backed away recently as I end up posting and then thinking about it all much too much.

Thanks for reaching out to me.

TheClogLady · 18/06/2023 12:51

Here’s the genspect link list:

https://genspect.org/groups/

I have made a post in my own preferred FB support group for gender sceptical parents asking for info and recommendations for parents of truly-adult age transitioners. Will let you know what comes back (unless you are already in the group!)

Helpful Groups - Genspect

Helpful Groups To help you through this journey, we’ve gathered links to a number of organisations you may find useful. INTERNATIONAL 4th Wave Now Gender Dysphoria Alliance Gender Exploratory Therapy Association Gender Health Query Institute for Compre...

https://genspect.org/groups/

TheClogLady · 18/06/2023 12:19

Advance apologies for temporarily taking this thread off on a parents of transitioners tangent rather than keeping it on topic for partners, I promise not to do it for long!

As a stepmum to an ROGD nearly-17 year old and a three-times-married woman with multiple mother-in-laws I have a potentially useful combo of lived experiences (😬)

(Plus, I’m a major Tinsel Angel fan and aspiring trans widow ally 😍)

Firstly, there are increasing numbers of parents of adult children joining the gender skeptical parent groups - thousands of ROGD teens are now young adults anyway and once a child is legally an adult a parent has very little sway so there isn’t much difference between the experiences of say, a parent of a 25 year old and the parent of a 45 year old (except for grandchildren being more likely).
I would definitely encourage parents of transitioning children of any age to make contact with these groups - the more parents of adults who make contact, the more likely it is that tailored peer support will come into existence.
In psychosocial terms an individual’s transition affects the entire family ‘system’ (something that trans widows will attest to).

Perhaps with some time and space your soon to be ex daughter in law will be in a
position where she is willing to think again re: contact with you @Cholumenosoapy?

Obvs I don’t know what your relationship has been like during the marriage but if I were in a similar situation I would send my imaginary STBXDIL a good old fashioned letter (not an email or text) stating what you have told us - that you understand why their marriage is ending, that you accept her decision to prioritise the well-being of her children, that you are disappointed in your son’s actions and that you are mindful of how difficult her position is.
If you are able to offer practical support (help with childcare or finances etc) or emotional support, offer it, or ask for permission to send the kids Xmas and birthday cards/gifts via her but (and I cannot stress this enough) don’t make her or the kids any promises you can’t keep (her STBX has already done quite enough of that thank you very much!)

And then BACK RIGHT OFF (with the assurance that your door will still be open to her and/or the kids even if it takes several years for her to want to come knock on it).

And yes, protect yourself, your son is 45 - he’s of the age where the parent/child relationship naturally and gradually should flip until he is the one looking out for his mum’s well-being, he shouldn’t be draining her of her emotional energy.
I’m glad you have found a counsellor who is able to support YOU and isn’t unduly influenced by the transactivism that has been targeting this professional arena.

Lastly, If relevant, I would seriously consider writing/rewriting your will.

Late life male transitioners burn through money at a rate akin to a gambling addict, clothes, shoes, wigs (& hair transplants) make up, multiple cosmetic surgeries (often combined with a foreign holiday), nights out, even a new, ‘girly’ car - it’s like a classic midlife, sports-car-and-shagging-the-secretary crisis but with infinitely more stuff to spaff the family resources on.

If you are likely to leave even a modest inheritance then reorganising your will to leave all (or most) of what would’ve been your son’s directly to his children would be a simple way to counteract some of the negative financial impact that a typical, late life transitioning father has on his children.

Just make the changes privately with your solicitor - no need for endless family dramas talking about it - when it becomes relevant you’ll already be gone and your former DIL and grandchildren will be left with the knowledge that you meant what you said in your letter re: prioritising the long-term well-being of your grandchildren over the desires of your son.

I’m sorry this is happening to you but you are not alone and hopefully you will be able to make contact with others in a similar position.

Genspect has a long list of orgs on their link page (will go fetch it and add to subsequent post as MN has an annoying habit of reloading and wiping an in-progress comment - we desperately need a ‘save draft’ function!)

Cholumenosoapy · 18/06/2023 11:37

Thanks for understanding @TinselAngel It means a lot and is much appreciated. I have been in touch with Bayswater and a couple of other organisations. They are very focused on younger trans and my situation is not really dealt with. I have found some parents on the forums but they are parents of either teens or young adults. No one seems to be dealing with an older man and the fall out for grandchildren.

TinselAngel · 18/06/2023 10:10

Cholumenosoapy · 18/06/2023 09:41

I’m the mother of a 45 year old son, who announced just before Christmas that he has gender dysphoria. I’ve really struggled with this and I feel bereaved. I’m working on separating the gorgeous little boy and teenager, my son was, from who he is today.

He has three young children, and a wife. They are in the middle of separating. I’m trying my very best to distance myself from the situation, as otherwise I’m not coping.

I reached out to my DIL but she didn’t want to know. It’s possible she lumps me in with him and wants me out of her life as well. I can’t say I blame her.

Going forward, I’ve told my son (he will always be my son) that I love him but I don’t want anything to do with his trans issues. At first he put enormous pressure on me to sit alone with him whilst he gave me all the details. I stood firm. I saw a counsellor and he wanted her contact details so he could speak to her about me. Of course I refused and the counsellor said she wouldn’t speak to him anyway.

I have to stick to what’s best for me. I’m nearly 70 and not in the best health. I can’t let his issues dominate the rest of my life. Having said that, I’m really sad, for myself, for him, his wife and most of all his children. He told the children very early on, with his reason being that modern parents don’t lie to their children.

Thanks for letting me post on this thread. It’s hard to find where to go in my situation.

I'm sorry for you loss, Cholumenosoapy.

Have you contacted Bayswater? I know they're geared towards parents of young ROGD people but there might be other parents in your position, or at least who you will share some issues with.

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Cholumenosoapy · 18/06/2023 09:41

I’m the mother of a 45 year old son, who announced just before Christmas that he has gender dysphoria. I’ve really struggled with this and I feel bereaved. I’m working on separating the gorgeous little boy and teenager, my son was, from who he is today.

He has three young children, and a wife. They are in the middle of separating. I’m trying my very best to distance myself from the situation, as otherwise I’m not coping.

I reached out to my DIL but she didn’t want to know. It’s possible she lumps me in with him and wants me out of her life as well. I can’t say I blame her.

Going forward, I’ve told my son (he will always be my son) that I love him but I don’t want anything to do with his trans issues. At first he put enormous pressure on me to sit alone with him whilst he gave me all the details. I stood firm. I saw a counsellor and he wanted her contact details so he could speak to her about me. Of course I refused and the counsellor said she wouldn’t speak to him anyway.

I have to stick to what’s best for me. I’m nearly 70 and not in the best health. I can’t let his issues dominate the rest of my life. Having said that, I’m really sad, for myself, for him, his wife and most of all his children. He told the children very early on, with his reason being that modern parents don’t lie to their children.

Thanks for letting me post on this thread. It’s hard to find where to go in my situation.

Bunshine · 18/06/2023 08:13

TookABigL · 17/06/2023 23:37

Then he sends me texts like this. That he “doesn’t want to be this way”? Objectively, I know he’s stringing me along. I know he’s trying to give me hope that he isn’t totally depraved and hasn’t completely lost himself. But I also know he’ll be back on Grindr in a month. I know that I just have to find the strength to give up on him. But God, that’s so hard.

Ah yes, this phase. He's an adult who is responsible for his actions and their consequences. And his actions are abhorrent.

He is too unstable and self-destructive to provide anything meaningful to any kind of relationship currently. 'I still want you in my life.' Well, of course he does. You're providing emotional energy and sexual activity. What is best for you though?

This dynamic is where our stories intersect with the partners of addicts. And this is why friends and family cut addicts off, not for lack of love but because they create broken trust and pain wherever they go. But (and I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news but this burned me in the past) there are no resources for appropriate treatment for these men nowadays because once 'gender issues' come into the picture, that identity is celebrated and hugboxxed, and everything else (the sexual compulsion, porn consumption, abuse, narcissism etc) is completely ignored.

At the end of the day, actions have consequences and it sounds like he's been a right piece of work lately. You do not have to stick around to have your mental, sexual and emotional health compromised again and again. ❤️

TinselAngel · 17/06/2023 23:55

If he wants to shag men (or more likely have men shag him), you're never going to be enough. And that's before we start thinking about the risk of STIs.

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TookABigL · 17/06/2023 23:37

Then he sends me texts like this. That he “doesn’t want to be this way”? Objectively, I know he’s stringing me along. I know he’s trying to give me hope that he isn’t totally depraved and hasn’t completely lost himself. But I also know he’ll be back on Grindr in a month. I know that I just have to find the strength to give up on him. But God, that’s so hard.

Trans Widows Escape Committee 5: And so it continues...
Katekate1991 · 17/06/2023 21:23

TookABigL Hey this may not be a addiction this could just be him either genuinely wanting to be a women, or some weird sexual fantasy. Either way if I was you I would get rid. I was with a cross dresser he promised it was just for fun, it never went away. He said odd things. When we slept together i got the impression he was pretending he was a woman. Now he is calling himself mummy like a lunatic. He actually calls himself mummy. Its rediclous. Ive literally wanted to commit suicide because its took over my life. If I was you I would move on. He is no longer the person you knew, this is not just a addiction and regardless he probably loves it to much to stop. If your sleeping with him he could be pretending he is a woman also God knows what the hell goes on in their head.

QuinnMovesOn2 · 17/06/2023 21:14

This new persona not only didn't have, but revelled in: infidelity, sexual coercion, malicious manipulation, outright lying, creepy mimicry, and a kind of shallowness that seemed both affected and pathological at the same time.

Yes, this. My ex wanted us to stay together as a non-sexual and non-romantic marriage. It was then that I realized I was being used as a financial and emotional prop by someone who didn't care about me and just considered me to be convenient and useful. It was very hard to deal with the fact that I still loved this person but he didn't give a damn about me. So I filed for divorce. Years later, I still feel scarred from this experience, but my life is so much better now.