Trans Widows Escape Committee 5: And so it continues...

I guess the bottom line is that Morris' wife stayed, which is ultimately more to do with her acceptance of the 'wrong body' idea and of the ability to change sex than how he handled it. I doubt many women here are considering leaving, or left, only because our exs behaved generally so poorly. I for one would not have stayed even if my ex had behaved better as fundamentally I didn't buy it, and didn't want a relationship with a middle-aged man playing 'female' and deluding himself that he was a woman. However a man handles it the women who stay do so because they believe what the man tells them about the necessity of doing it, and they opt to be a part of it. Those relationships are endlessly promoted and celebrated elsewhere. This thread is where the sceptical, unconvinced, unhappy and devastated women speak their experiences. So whether Morris - mainly by his own report - treated his particular spouse slightly less badly, isnt really relevant to the remit of this thread.

I'm not really interested in celebrating any late onset trans identified males or their seemingly accepting but generally muted wives on this thread either. It suggests the experience of all the women here is unusual.

She struck me as a sensible person, if that is any help? It didn't make any of my bullshit detectors twitch.

True, Tinsel. However, I find it interesting that J Morris was so convinced that people were completely unaware that it could ever have been anything other than a woman in their presence. I have to add this is a reference to JM's embodiment prior to the 'so called sex change' (as Elizabeth Morris herself said).

I must admit I love wild, curly hair. It reminds me of Brian May.

twitter.com/DrBrianMay/photo

Can you point us in the direction of her interview Asking. I can't find anything...

• I don’t think you are alone - anyone would find this impossible.

Somewhere someone wrote an article about why this sort of misuse of language is like rohypnol with one of the effects being the mental confusion and fog it causes.*

Absolutely an accurate comparison. It’s the same thing. Like when someone takes cocaine for a couple of days with no sleep. That does a similar thing to your memory too when you’ve been awake too long.

Sorry for the late reply. I didn’t think I was best placed to get drawn into the recent intrusion. I am shocked someone would interject like that using the language she did considering we were literally just talking about how it effects us mentally.

To anyone else who wishes to interject. Please don’t. You are abusing us. The reason we don’t do it back is because we know you will need us one day and we don’t wish to make it difficult for women to come back in future.

If you are reading these threads you are already on your way out. I was. I was reading discussions on the relationships board telling myself mine wasn’t like that.

The fact is. When I truly believed he wasn’t like that, I wasn’t taking part in these discussions because there was nothing to discuss.

The same as now I’m engaged and in a healthy relationship I’m not out there looking for anyone else’s opinion.

Gosh, there seems to rather a gushing article on how altogether marvellous J Morris was.

This snippet may elucidate Elizabeth Morris' opinion. this sex-change thing – so-called – happened

Interesting from the newspaper article on how J Morris seems to think that their children are as a result of J Morris' sperm as the creator and Elizabeth just moulded them. Did they know that sperm aren't just little human beings who simply need a place to grow?

Also, how simply everyone was confused when J Morris said they reported on the Mt Everest expedition and everyone bewildered at the contradiction of an apparent woman doing that. Even queenie all confused as she normally needs someone to explain things to her. She may be the head of state, but only a woman for all that.

It is the biggest load of indulgent tosh, in my humble view.

Interestingly, when J Morris was in London, J Morris still stayed at the gentlemen's Club of which J Morris was a member. A club which did not allow women to be members. A club which barred women members. Yet, for some reason the club and J Morris seemed to agree that this bar was not pertinent in J Morris' case. Mysterious, huh? It just has me scratching my head as to why the bar on women members never, ever applied to J Morris throughout their entire life.

I imagine the irony was not lost on J Morris' ex wife.

The best example would be one who did not create a transwidow in the first place. Seeing more examples each day even outside of this situation where it is put upon women and children to change around their existence to suit a man’s preferences/decisions/whims etc.

I’ve been fortunate with MIL. She has been very supportive and brought to light a lot of long standing behaviors of stbEX (not related to transition) that actually helped me see it wasn’t just in my head. Of course would have helped to know just how much of his presentation was a sham even beyond transition business but well no time machines.

Agreed that the focus here is the support of women and their children if there are any. There are countless places everywhere to support the husband but very few like here that I’ve found that offer support to the wife in a meaningful way.

I don't think there are any shining examples of this. Author Jennifer Boylan and her wife staying together in a sexless marriage, primarily for the sake of their children? With Deirdre Boylan describing herself as "a saint" for having done so? I told my ex that I was completely unwilling to be a part of anything like that.

They'd do well to follow Morris's "on stage" example, in any case! A far cry from what is recounted here, that's for sure.

Thank you!

I did hear an interview with his wife, a while ago, but of course there is no reason to think she was being truthful about her feelings.

Anyhow, my feeling remains as wishing that all men transitioning in their thirties or forties showed a bit less total disregard for their wives and children, on the whole.

Yes, it's a shame she never wrote a book. Women in this position are far less vocal about the experience than their ex-partners it seems...

I have just read Conundrum by Jan Morris and couldn't help noticing the enormous contrast between what James Morris decided to do and what is described here in too many cases. I wish moire were like James.

For a start, he did nothing concrete about his dysphoria until his children were old enough to handle it (though he did take some hormones for a few days, he decided not to continue them for some time thereafter, and disposed of them) and then he took ten years of gradual adjustment into his female persona so they had plenty of time to get used to him as ambiguous sexually. And when it became clear that in order to have surgery in England on the NHS to alter his sex as much as was possible he would have to get a divorce first, he and his wife discussed it and decided they didn't want that so instead of going via the NHS he went to a private doctor in the Middle East. (Which incidentally seems to have been a fairly horrific and painful experience, even though it made her happy in a way she hadn't been for quite a while.)

In other words he wasn't thinking only me-me-me; he was having some consideration for the wife and children he no longer felt able to stay as husband and father to. And she and his ex-wife do seem to have remained friends until his death: they got re-married once same-0sex marriage in this country became possible.

I wish so much that more men who needed for whatever reason to transition were more like that!

Hang on in there Southern. You're doing a good job of keeping everyone happy... when it emerges why you have divorced your MIL will doubtless feel sympathetic (mine rang me when she found out and said I must feel terribly betrayed!'... a few months later I was mysteriously the unreasonable person pursuing divorce for financial clarity and safety) even if she doesn't show it. I hope yours is more supportive when the dust settles.