Trans Widows Escape Committee 5: And so it continues...

Morning Ellie, hope you got some sleep.

As for explanations to your DC of what is going on, I would get in there first and give them a really simple explanation appropriate to their age. Just that Daddy feels a bit unhappy and dressing like a lady and having a different name will help him feel better. They really don't need to know anything about the ins and outs of gender theory at this point and push back on any attempts by your H to indoctrinate them. They are just too young to make any sense of this. Though make it clear to them that Daddy is still Daddy, and no boys can't become girls.

I can sense that you are really nervous of displeasing your H. Are you afraid of him? If so you really need to make plans to get out of this situation with your DC, things will only get worse.

If it is just that your H has persuaded you that he is oh so vulnerable and his delicate feelings must be put first, I can tell you that is nonsense. He will NOT kill himself if you refuse to play along with his plans to spend the entire family budget on clothes. Nor will he spontaneously combust if you get his pronouns "wrong " or refuse to pretend he is not your DC's Dad. He is not exempt from normal rules of decency and you and the DC deserve to be considered in this mess. I know it's hard, but please know you are important and don't let him browbeat you.

to you and I hope you find a way to navigate through this. Try to hold onto your sense of self and remember you matter.

@Ellie3094, I am so very sorry you are going through this nightmare, especially when pregnant. Do everything you can to protect yourself and your children legally and financially. It is very likely that he will start spending lots of money in support of his desires to transition. You need to prepare yourself. Also, don't let your worries about 50/50 custody force you to stay with him. It may turn out that he doesn't actually want as much time with them as you might think. My ex hasn't seen our children in over six months.

You, and only you, are your children's mother. You are not a lesbian. Remember these things and don't allow him to manipulate and gaslight you or your children.

[quote WifeOfTiresias]@Ellie3094 , you are not in the same situation as the two lesbian mums though. In their case the child has been brought up from birth with two mums, that is their normal and safely bonded situation.

In your case your H fathered children as a man, brought them up and bonded with them as their Daddy. That was his choice. Now he wants to pull the rug on them and expects them to get their head round a situation where their Dad had disappeared and been replaced by a stranger who is insisting they call them Mum. This is abusive as they know that they only have one Mum - you - but they are being forced to pretend this stranger is also their Mum and their Dad is effectively dead. Hideously traumatic for a young child.

This was the hill I was prepared to die on. No way was I going' to allow my kids to be traumatised like that. I told H that he either accepted the DC would call him Dad or I would leave with the DC and do everything in my power to stop him seeing them.

Remember your H does not get to dictate how things should happen. He is trying to make out that his feelings need to come first but that is not the action of a caring parent. A decent parent always puts their children first. If he can't do that you need to protect them from his toxic bullshit.

Luckily H came to his senses and realised I was right so we have been able to have a successful coparenting relationship.[/quote]
You're right and I really don't want them to call him mum but I just worry he is going to do something like try and explain it to them and see what they think and they are 4 and 2 and there is no way they will understand but I think he could probably manipulate it so the our 4 year old agrees with him. And even if he doesn't how do we explain that he is trans at all without making her just so confused and causing her lots of problems? I know that if I did that then he would be far better in court and would try and make it out like I was transphobic for not accepting this and I don't know I don't think it would work and it would only make it worse. I just don't think he understands at all the problem and he just thinks its no big deal

Ellie one step at a time. Get help.

"He's a good dad when he actually spends time with them but I've always done a lot more than him and he's got worse recently and he didn't really do enough to start with. And I'm worried about that now is not the right time to leave with a baby on the way as I need his support when the baby is born but I don't know if he will give me enough..."

It doesn't sound as if he is a really great dad. Even if he did want 50/50 care you have to think what is best for the kids. I know you will. Sometimes it sounds selfish for a mum to say she is best for the kids - but she often is.

@Ellie3094 , you are not in the same situation as the two lesbian mums though. In their case the child has been brought up from birth with two mums, that is their normal and safely bonded situation.

In your case your H fathered children as a man, brought them up and bonded with them as their Daddy. That was his choice. Now he wants to pull the rug on them and expects them to get their head round a situation where their Dad had disappeared and been replaced by a stranger who is insisting they call them Mum. This is abusive as they know that they only have one Mum - you - but they are being forced to pretend this stranger is also their Mum and their Dad is effectively dead. Hideously traumatic for a young child.

This was the hill I was prepared to die on. No way was I going' to allow my kids to be traumatised like that. I told H that he either accepted the DC would call him Dad or I would leave with the DC and do everything in my power to stop him seeing them.

Remember your H does not get to dictate how things should happen. He is trying to make out that his feelings need to come first but that is not the action of a caring parent. A decent parent always puts their children first. If he can't do that you need to protect them from his toxic bullshit.

Luckily H came to his senses and realised I was right so we have been able to have a successful coparenting relationship.

this type of advice...

Ellie " I do a lot more of looking after the kids and the housework than him and he has been doing a lot less these past 2 months as well and he's not been much of a dad for this past month. I am kinda scared that if we do split then he will want to have the kids 50% of the time and I don't want that and I need legal help for that maybe too if that happens."

Your youngest child is not even out of your womb yet, how could your partner expect 50/50 care of a brand new baby. It sounds like he hasn't been doing a lot of the caring lately, how much did he do in the past. Your children need stability, I am not sure your partner can give that, especially at this moment.

"I've just never had to deal with anything like this before or any legal stuff and I don't know what I want or what to say to a lawyer anyway."

I think that is why you need legal help and advice. And probably many people who seek his type of advice are doing it for the first time... Just tell the lawyer whatever is relevant, your concerns etc. And how to protect yourself and the kids. EG do you own your home together or rent, or does he own it? Etc You don't need to tell us but you need to think about all this.

I'm sure others will be able to tell you much better than I, how to prepare yourself.

" I just want this all to go back to how it was before..."

I am so sorry that this is so hard. I've not been in your shoes but one thing I think it is safe to say is it is not going to go back as it was before. As they say, "You can't put the genie back in the bottle." And having presumably waited so long to come out I don't think your partner will wish to do that anyway.

Good luck.

You're right I probably need to get some legal and financial advice and yes he has gone behind my back far more than I would be doing that and it seems ok. Thanks I shall try and do that and you're right I don't know what he is going to do and he doesn't seem to care and thinks it is no big deal and its like if you think its no big deal then why has it taken so long and so many years lieing to me and I don't understand. I do a lot more of looking after the kids and the housework than him and he has been doing a lot less these past 2 months as well and he's not been much of a dad for this past month. I am kinda scared that if we do split then he will want to have the kids 50% of the time and I don't want that and I need legal help for that maybe too if that happens. I've just never had to deal with anything like this before or any legal stuff and I don't know what I want or what to say to a lawyer anyway. I just want this all to go back to how it was before

Getting professional advice is definitely a good idea. I’m quite financially independent from my husband so I’m not too worried about that side of things.

I’ve told him I have no interest in becoming some weird faux lesbian couple and that he has to choose this or me, he says he chooses me but let’s see how long that lasts. He can be pretty good to talk to about this (depending on what mood he is in) and listens to what I’m saying because he knows I’m a logical person who is trying to look out for his best interests. I just wish there was mental health help that could help us, I feel like the system has hung people like him out to dry for the sake of political correctness and fear of the mob.

Ellie, I’m very sorry you are going through this too, especially being pregnant, it’s a complete headf#%k at the best of times.

Agreed. Get legal and financial advice immediately. You can bet he's more things behind your back than you can imagine.

My ExH completely disregarded mine and our daughter's feelings after he decided to live his best stunning and brave life without any discussion and caused her to have a massive mental health crisis at the age of only 7 which took 2 years of careful professional support to even begin to improve. Luckily I was pretty financially independent (house and assets in my name only which I owned for many years before he hoovered me up) and I very quickly filed for divorce and protected myself and the children. He is now living in pretty much in practical and financial dire straights after sucking his business dry to fund his lifestyle and losing all his clients with his aggressive attitude.

Many contributors to this thread advise seeking some basic, often free, legal/financial advice because of the speed at which they have experienced men pressing ahead with 'transition', the often-secret and unnegotiated spending of family finances involved, and the failure of attempts to hold boundaries and agreements about behaviour, respect and collaboration on managing this bombshell. I certainly started out very collaborative, civilised intentions but rapidly discovered my husband opted to breach pretty much all the agreements we'd made (including as part of our collaborative divorce) about handling the children's feelings, making changes to his appearance, finances and the agreed timescale for change. It sounds like you want to wait and see which is of course entirely up to you, and maybe your partner will be reasonable and fair. But thus far he doesn't seem to have thought much about your feelings and needs, so I guess we are ringing a warning bell in suggesting you equip yourself with professional advice just in case. Provided you can tolerate waiting to see what happens next, and working it out yourselves, you may decide for now to go with that. But by only talking to him about this and no other neutral, professional or supportive parties for yourself, you are likely to carry a huge load alone. I certainly couldn't have done that and needed a circle of supportive people (solicitor, friends, family, counsellor for me) around me fairly quickly.

Ellie I am not a trans widow but I do look in on the thread now and again. I feel very passionately about women's rights and family support.

I just wanted to to comment as you said "...I'm a bit clueless financially tbh I leave most of that to him. I don't know I just feel like getting a lawyer should be a last resort and feel really bad about doing that especially behind his back."

I think you really need to get clued up on the finances, and also to get advice. You have said up-thread you do not think you will stay with him,

"He said I was right to be angry but that it wasn't his fault and I should be angry at society and not at him. I told him I wasn't going to do that yet and I didn't think that we could stay together."

...so you do need to prepare for that even if you do choose to stay together.

There are so many issues, there is all the emotional stuff but there is also the practical stuff. You are the mum to three children, one still in your tummy, and you have to ensure their future and care for them.

Your partner, I am sure, does care about the kids, but does he look after them most of the time, know their needs and care for those needs? Or is it you, who does most of the caring?

He sounds like he is very wrapped up in himself at the moment and so someone has to think about the kids' needs.

Please do not think you have to give him a heads up about everything you are thinking and or/planning/doing?

He has told you that he has been looking into this for a short while/while also saying he has known for a long time. Yet, has not given you a heads up on any of this until you are living together with two kids and one on the way.

Whatever the reason that you felt your relationship may not continue, you are within your rights to make your plans, think about your own situation, etc, as he has been doing.

Whatever the future holds, I wish you all the best, and I hope you will be able to find a pathway through this that will be best for all of you. Bearing in mind that what is best for you may not be best for him, and vice versa.

You have to think of yourself. Whether you stay together or not is a joint decision and so if one wants to leave and one wants to stay, it cannot work. I just wanted to wish you all the best and hope the others on the thread don't mind me pitching in.

(For total transparency, I am happily married and have not been through this. We have a trans child - I am definitely not in your position, and I am not anti trans; I am pro women, pro family and pro everyone getting the same chance as other people to do something they want to do. He will follow his own pathway, I am sure. and you can make your own choices.

What you do is you raise merry hell and absolutely refuse to allow anyone to tell your kids that their dad is now their mum. It's downright abusive to tell a child that lie and is pretty much the same as a bereavement to tell them they no longer have a father. They will only ever have one mum and that is YOU, the woman who birthed them.

Yes your husband is their parent. And being a parent means always putting your childrens welfare before your own delicate feelings. That means dropping this silly conceit of appropriating your role to pander to their vanity and accepting that they HAVE to accept they must always be their children's father. If they can't do this they are a poor excuse for a parent.

Please, for your sake and that of your children, find your anger and stand up to these delusional idiots. You do NOT need to accept their ridiculous, illogical nonsense.

Ellie it's a complete bombshell. I barely functioned for months, and just went through the motions of work and kids like a robot. You could do with some legal advice about your situation it seems to me, for.reassurance about your finances if you decide to leave. I hope you can talk to someone.

Thanks everyone this is really helpful all your advice. I'm kinda embarrassed to tell people irl atm as I think it is his choice to and I don't know and it just doesn't seem really and it just feels like such a weird thing. You're right that is helpful he is like that he's treated me badly regardless and he just says it is tougher for him and it just seems like he doesn't care. Tbh I can't see myself staying with him and I think we will break up I just don't know how it'll be with our kids having him as a mum and it just makes no sense. I think you're right he is kinda gaslighting and I just don't understand anything and nothing he says makes sense. He does earn quite a bit more than me and I am worried a bit about that if I leave and I don't know how everything will work with the kids mainly. I'm trying really hard just to focus on the kids but I am so confused by it and can't stop thinking about everything and I don't know and nothing makes sense

Good advice Bunshine. You will have to work out what you want. Not what he wants or what he says you should do (my ex also said it would be no big deal in the current climate, for our kids and boy was that a complacent, insensitive and self-serving assumption). If you can choose one safe person to confide in it may really help, so that you can get your heads straight. Your priorities are now your children and you. He is very likely to press ahead and do what he wants. If you stick around out of loyalty, or financial/housing reasons, have a back up plan. A free first session with a lawyer is good. Doesn't matter if you never need the info, but you are armed with advice. There are no stats but it appears that at least half of relationships end with this, so don't let him imply to you that any reasonable woman would stay. Truth is they are more likely to leave. He's said his piece Ellie and it doesn't look as if he has any curiosity for or concern for your feelings and fears, so you need to try to keep calm and focused on those priorities and start to think. It's very hard to do that alongside normal family life. I did it and it was terribly stressful but as said above, there is a future and you will get through this nightmare.

@Lost2022 and @Ellie3094 Hi both, and so sorry you're dealing with such intense feelings, they can feel overwhelming in the beginning.
Yes, currently, all mainstream support is focused on the trans partner due to the current cultural climate, but that IN NO WAY diminishes the truth of our experiences. I've found the most close friends that I reveal this part of my past to are immensely reasonable and sympathetic. As mentioned previously, we/they just can't say it in public. I do not believe this will always be the case, but support for trans widows is difficult to come by. However, most of the posters here have been through the worst and are out the other end. It does get better.

This issue can be quite confusing, but to preserve your own equilibrium on not be distracted by gaslighting, I've found it helps to remove the 'because they're trans' issue from the equation. For example, your partner has taken steps that will greatly decrease the chance of you becoming pregnant at a time when you are actively trying to become pregnant, knows this, and lied about it. Or, your partner has been creeping around for years contemplating a major life change while keeping you in the dark and then when you become upset when he reveals it (that's why he hid it), he treats you with contempt and condescension.

There is no excuse for this behaviour.

You're in a painful place, but your partners also seem to be behaving abominably, gender issues or no gender issues. So, what are the most empowering and self-protective decisions you can make moving forward? Shifting the focus from their issues to my own future broke my heart at first but also ejected me from the mental-health destroying roller coaster that staying with my ex husband had me on.

It's nice your partner is ready for an adult conversation. Because that means he intends to empathise with and validate your feelings, riiiiiiight? Otherwise, it sounds like he's throwing you under the bus so that he doesn't have to feel bad.

Why is this terrible behaviour so embedded in 'the script' we experience? I'll say it again, gaslghting, minimising, contempt, invalidation, these are abuse tactics and there's no excuse. Full stop.

Your feelings, your discomfort, your cognitive dissonance, your anger, all of these are valid and completely understandable, no matter what your partner (who has a vested interest in brushing this under the rug and you being 'wrong' so that they can pursue their impulses) may say.

Sorry for the rant, but I hear this stuff and it's all so familiar, just brings those dark years rushing back to me and makes me really angry that women are still going through this same thing in exactly the same way.

At least for now, it may be more empowering to detach emotionally. Protect yourself and your peace first.

I've had a conversation with him about it and I still feel just as pissed off at him. He says I am right to be angry but I should be 'angry at society and not angry at him'. He says he has known he was a girl 'pretty much all his life' which I just don't believe I know that sounds bad but I just think there is no way the man I met was actually a woman and had gender dysphoria. I asked him what it felt like and he said that it was hard to explain but he just felt his body was wrong and he would be more comfortable and happier as a woman and that was who he was meant to be. I asked him what he felt he couldn't do as a man and he said there wasn't anything specific but he couldn't be himself and I asked him in what way and he said it was hard to explain. He says that he is coming out now as he has been inspired by another transwoman from work who started working there recently and talking with her has really helped him. He said our relationship has been '100% genuine' even though he was keeping this all to himself. Though he half retracted that and said that 'all the important stuff in our relationship was 100% genuine' and he's 'only really kept this to himself and nothing else'. He says he is a lesbian. He says he thinks everything happens for a reason and he knows that I wouldn't have dated him had he come out before we met, and he thinks that maybe him not coming out for so long was because we're meant to be together. Which literally makes no sense. He says that I will love him a lot more when he becomes the women he was meant to be. He has been going along to therapy and a support group for about 2 months and they all encouraged him to tell me. I had realised he was away a lot more and I thought he was cheating. He says he isn't ready to come out to everyone just yet and needs more time as he doesn't fully understand everything he is feeling himself. But he eventually hopes to have HRT and fully transition and hopes that talking to me would give him more of an idea of when he is going to tell other people and fully transition. He said I was right to be angry but that it wasn't his fault and I should be angry at society and not at him. I told him I wasn't going to do that yet and I didn't think that we could stay together. He says that our children having 2 mums was literally not a problem at all and was a non issue. He thinks it would be good for them and him doing this would make him a better parent as it would make him understand the world better himself and understand himself. He says that I need to understand how tough it is for him and that it was 'a lot tougher for him understanding everything than it is for me'. And if 'I can't support him when he was going through the toughest time of his life then our relationship meant a lot less to me than he thought' and that a relationship isn't supposed to be about just the good times and we're a proper partnership. He says he promises if I stick with him through this that good times would soon come. Basically I feel even more angry and confused about everything and I don't know what to think and even more it just confuses me and makes no sense and I've dated him for 9 years and still I never knew anything and I feel like he's lied so much and now he just doesn't care and I feel like this isn't him and it isn't the person I love and it just makes no sense