TW: Laila Mickelwait: [children pay] a devastating price for an unchecked Big Porn sex crime industry.

The difference between a novel with an incest storyline and Porn is pretty clear, imo. Porn is about desire fulfillment, wishful thinking etc.- it is, in a perverse way, aspirational. It intends to make its theme desirable and erotic- effectively it attempts to train people up to find it arousing.

A novel with an incest storyline is quite different. It would explore the problems, complexities, issues of such relationship. It would probably seek to explore why the relationship had come to pass, and whether it was coercive. It would be nuanced- or else a crap read.

[quote AssassinatedBeauty]@JediGnot could you step back and reflect for a second here? You are posting many times in quick succession, long posts that repeat the same thing. You are making this thread about you and what you have or haven't said. This is Feminist Chat, in the Feminist section of a predominantly women's website. Do you think it is helpful to this discussion to de-rail and dominate the discussion in this way?[/quote]
No I don't think it is helpful, and I will do my best to post no more, but if people continue to ask me questions or misrepresent me then I will continue to post.

The entire point - as I have already explained - is that gay sex disgusts me (as in I have zero desire to engage in it or watch it) just like watching people pretending to be father and daughter fucking disgusts me (as in I have no desire to act out that think that to some people might be a "fantasy" or watch it). But both things (gay sex and acting roles duiring consensual sex) are acceptable so long as they are between consenting adults.

Videos of men raping unconcious women are disgusting and illegal, incest or otherwise.

@JediGnot could you step back and reflect for a second here? You are posting many times in quick succession, long posts that repeat the same thing. You are making this thread about you and what you have or haven't said. This is Feminist Chat, in the Feminist section of a predominantly women's website. Do you think it is helpful to this discussion to de-rail and dominate the discussion in this way?

You are telling me that you think that I watch incest rape when I have specifically stated that I don't. YOU ARE CALLING ME A LIAR.

And you are deliberately trying to provoke me.

The idea of gay sex disgusts you? What on earth is the point of you writing that. Keep it to yourself.

And saying it's the same as watching film purporting to be (and that might actually be) a father raping his unconscious daughter is appalling.

What's the matter with you?

Do you mean that you don't think it should be legal for blood relatives to make porn together? If so then relax, I'm pretty sure incest is illegal even if you are filming it.

If it isn't real incest then it must be a story, it must be two people playing characters and telling a story, with that story labelled "incest". I think it's disgusting, but how is it different from a novel which features an incest storyline? Would you make "pretending to be relatives for the purposes of making a porn film" a crime? Would putting "incest" int he title be a crime even if the porn film made no refence to father / daughter?

Where did I call you a liar?

Where? Show it.

Alternatively, stop whining about being misrepresented and fuck off.

I genuinely don't believe that I have posted anything unreasonable.

If I have then please let me know what it is or report me to the mods so that they can delete posts or ban me as appropriate.

I agree that there are huge issues, very damaging things going on that harm individuals and society itself.

I don't have the answers, but trying to ban all porn, or just the non-vanilla potentially more harmful stuff just isn't realistic.

I think that the answers have to be mainly about parents and schools making sure that ALL children are protected from adult material as much as possible, and are taught at great length about issues such as consent and how most porn is completely unrealistic.

Quite. Was about to post the same, having been reading this thread, or trying to.

JFC. You said you were going to stop posting on the thread. Just fuck off.

If one party is passed out that is rape and illegal and I condemn that unequivocally, obviously.

" 'flat' young teens with braces" - clearly it is deeply deeply deeply problematic, and obviously if I had a teen daughter I would not want her hanging round with men who fetishize flat chests and braces. Obviously I would be deeply worried that the man's fetish bordered on or actually was paedophilia. Where did I say it's OK for men to google "'flat' young teens with braces fucking"? I didn't.

Having said all that braces do not equal underage; plenty of adult women have very small breasts... I hope that you wouldn't tell a flat chested 18 year old girl with braces that she shouldn't have sex until she's had the braces removed and grown breasts as by definition any man who wants to sleep with her must be a paedophile.

I don't think incest porn should be legal. But if criminalising it isn't agreeable, making it difficult to access would be a good start. At the very least it should be locked behind a paid password protected site that requires age authorisation. That would be some layer of protection for the 10 year old on the Internet mentioned by PPs.

I can see the risks that - say - deep throat porn presents... fucking up boys expectations, fucking up what girls think is normal and expected in a sexual relationship. I can see the potential for it to do massive harm to society and individuals. But I don't think that means it should be illegal, or it could ever practically be made illegal or that it automatically means the participants or viewers are dangerous people.

It's a bit like alcohol - can totally fuck up individuals and to a lesser extent society, but that doesn't make an individual drinker or publican a bad person.

I am sorry you have been through the abuse you have. I would love the internet to have much less porn on it, and the porn it has to be much more vanilla. I can see all sorts of problems with it. But I disagree that having deeply weird kinks / fetishes / perversions automatically makes people bad, so long as they stay within the law.

(1) Absolutely disgusts me in terms of thinking about doing it

but

(2) Is absolutely 100% fine for others to do.

I think exactly the same thing about a film depicting an young woman old enough to consent, an older man, and a label which lies and says the performers are father and daughter. Absolutely disgusting from my point of view, but I'm not going to condemn someone else for watching consensual adults.

I'm going to try not to repeat myself on this thread, will try to stop posting any more. But I do also want to say that if there is evidence that people who search for porn between consenting adults which pretends to depict rape or incest are more likely to be rapists or abusers then it would be good if society spent time and money investigating people making those searches. I understand why anyone would find it really off-putting if they found out their friend / colleague had weird fetishes.

*bold fail,

Bloody fat fingers!!

Whoops, old fail.

*if the teen is under age or passed out or the other person is her actual father then it is obviously 100% disgusting and illegal.

If the teen is above the age of consent and having consensual sex with another porn performer then I'm not sure how it's my business if it's labelled teen incest and some complete fucking weirdo gets off on it*

YOU might be able to make that distinction but with how easily accessible porn is nowadays, young children are watching porn (I’m sure I read a report that found 10 year olds were watching it - I might be wrong).

Do you think a 10 year old would be able to make that distinction? Do you think they sit there and analyse the heading or the description of the video before watching it?

You've repeatedly defending men wanking over passed out 'flat' young teens with braces - we can all see that and now you've decided you're 'somewhat offended' because you thought I called you a liar when I didn't?

Wow.

if the teen is above the age of consent and having consensual sex with another porn performer then I'm not sure how it's my business if it's labelled teen incest and some complete fucking weirdo gets off on it.

Do you not understand how desensitisation works? I’ve been sexually abused. Viewing these things even with actors desensitises you the same way I used to think it was normal that my ex was saving other men’s cum in a bottle in the freezer.

If the teen is above the age of consent and having consensual sex with another porn performer then I'm not sure how it's my business if it's labelled teen incest and some complete fucking weirdo gets off on it.

This isn't about whether it turns you on. Recruiting gay porn into this argument is offensive.

This is pretty offensive, imo:
"Weird, twisted, fucked-up consenting adults, but I acknowledge that there are numerous things that should be legal despite me having less than zero interest in doing them (gay sex being an obvious example)."

Some things are indefensible. It turns out this guy is in fact exactly what his search terms suggest he is, sadly.

Imo, it is a signifier of morally bankrupt.

You are saying that while you don't share or understand those fantasies, it's fine for people to have those fantasies, and fine for others to act them out to entertain other people.

I would say, feeding those fantasies is criminal. Feeding your own illegal fantasies is dangerous and possibly criminal.

The videos on mainstream porn sites are pretty much well known to include illegal abusive material. Watching it drives the abuse.

Where do you draw the line about what is 'not your taste but allowed' and what is not? Is filming acted out sexual abuse of animals ok? What about of 18 year olds in pigtails with school uniform? What about torture? Is it ok to film simulated torture and the torturers getting off on it?

Where is the line for you between 'deeply weird and not to your taste' and 'disturbed and illegal'?

Im not calling you a liar.

I totally believe that you think wanking over films of passed out teens/father daughter incest is a perfectly fine way to spend an afternoon.