TW: Laila Mickelwait: [children pay] a devastating price for an unchecked Big Porn sex crime industry.

I know re homophobia I mean who says that fgs

When Johnny Cash sings ""I shot a man in Reno, just to watch him die" I don't assume that he is a literal killer. When an author writes a novel featuring incest I don't presume that she is condoning or promoting incest

You're comparing apples with things that aren't even fruit. Porn has no purpose other sexual titillation. It bears no comparison.

I think that if an act is illegal in real life it should be illegal in filmed porn.

This would not exclude the depiction of incest or rape in a film or book where it is essential to the plot or the telling of a true story and there is a valid artistic, cultural or biographical reason for including it.

If the only motivation, as in porn is sexual titillation then pretend incest etc . should be illegal.

Reading these arguments is fucking mind boggling. Has anyone else picked up on the outrageous homophobia demonstrated here. If yes, apologies. But what the fucking fuck. You view gay sex as on the same level of disgustingness as incest??? Wtf..I'm absolutely gobsmacked by that. I genuinely think that's one of the worst things I've ever read on here.

@QuentinBunbury

I am very confused by a recent trend I've seen on threads to equate novels (ie fiction only existing in the author/readers imagination) to porn (at best acting the "story" at worst being an actual depiction). It makes me think that either people are stupid for believing imagination is equivalent to watching something. Or they think we are stupid and will fall for this patent drivel

I believe that if it is between consenting adults it is fine. I believe that if they consent another adult to watch then that's also fine. If they want to attach a story to the pictures then that is also fine. When I see "incest porn" as a category on a porn site I assume it is a fiction, not videos of real incest. When Johnny Cash sings ""I shot a man in Reno, just to watch him die" I don't assume that he is a literal killer. When an author writes a novel featuring incest I don't presume that she is condoning or promoting incest.

Anyway. I recommend ignoring porn connoisseurs. They tend to not have much worth saying ime and take up a lot of time.

I am very confused by a recent trend I've seen on threads to equate novels (ie fiction only existing in the author/readers imagination) to porn (at best acting the "story" at worst being an actual depiction).
It makes me think that either people are stupid for believing imagination is equivalent to watching something. Or they think we are stupid and will fall for this patent drivel

Well no the law is 16 to make it easier to prosecute those who are coercive etc (even though there are laws about that in their own right).

It also is s clear message in society that 16 is the cut off. (Some say that is too low, it's out of step with who etc).

Changing this to 14 would in practice make that the age in society. Sex offences are rarely prosecuted

I said that at first I did not click on the link, and even now I have read little of it.

Jedi here it's not too too long and is written in pretty understandable language

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/42/contents

The CPS is where to look for the public interest notes around consent

I think that the laws around 14 and 15 year olds having sex with each other could perhaps be changed to reflect what you say are current prosecution guidelines. Other than this one example my proposal would effectively raise the age of consent as people would need to be older before their were "fair game" to all (c) The Sun.

I don't have tiktok but the screenshots from this thread indicate that other children have experienced this as escalating behaviour.

twitter.com/newcrunchymom/status/1389315994749919233?s=21

I'm not sure that making more porn illegal will help though, not least because people will still access if they want to. I simply do not believe that you will stop adults accessing this porn neither of us want to watch, and you can bet your life if adults can access it then tech savvy kids will too.

If I could magically prevent all children ever seeing porn I would, but I simply do not believe you can achieve that, and if you tried you'd be infringing on the right of adults (which is not necessarily a problem if it's proportionate).

I am not any sort of expert on what porn women do or don't like so I won't be bringing that up. Parents, schools, society as a whole all need to do their best to ensure that children understand that when they inevitably see porn huge swathes of it bears zero relation to real sex. Parents should be looking after their children - obviously - but some can't and some won't which means we need others in society (not least schools) to ensure that no child falls through the gaps and doesn't get the information that they need.

Are you not in the UK?! Or just don't know much about the laws around consent?

If you don't know the laws then don't you think it's a bit bold to say they should be changed?

Then you changed your mind when you saw the other information that indicated he was indeed behaving inappropriately with his daughter.

And yet even though on this thread about this girl and her father you keep saying it's no indication of a dodgy bloke. Apart from... In this case it was. The one we're actually talking about.

All this random stuff is being posted why

Lower the age of consent
You find gay sex disgusting
I can see why women might be upset if they find their partners googling rape porn

This is all misdirection isn't it?

My knowledge of and interest in the precise details of consent law in the UK is limited, but I can assure you if I changed the law it would probably make it harder for men my age to sleep with young women, and it categorically would not make it easier.

I honestly was not even vaguely considering the age of consent for porn when I posted that. Given the potential downsides of becoming a porn performer my inclination would be that there may be some argument for 19-21 being the minimum age, not 18. I can't see any reason why anyone would want to reduce it unless they have deeply dodgy motives.

This isn't about our parents watching imagery of women being raped.

It's about the teenage girl in the story and what she found and how she felt. You initially said essentially that it was a bit shit for her but really what's the problem.

Ah now we move onto the usual

Prove there's a link between consuming this (on purpose, moving towards it as you watch more and want more tabboo images, coming across it by accident) and sexual abuse/ rape.

Oh well to do it you'd have to police all people's search history really heavily.

The porn is not the problem young people accessing it is. Off you go and magically sort that out. Because any action to restrict the 'right' of adults to view all sorts of material cannot be removed as that would not be fair as lots of people (men) like this stuff.

Coming up in 321...

Women love this sort of porn why focus on men it's not fair
Parents should be looking after their children

That's my guess anyway.

My understanding is that women often get very upset when other people presume to know better than what the woman herself is directly expressing. Obviously my experience right now is trivial compared to what women go through day in day out, but it is pretty tiresome and tiring.

At 2.36.50 I said -

"Clearly, other things being equal, I would consider the consumer of rape porn much more likely to be an actual or potential rapist than a consumer of vanilla porn... I wouldn't blame you for wishing to avoid them... but neither would assume that just because someone has sick fantasies they are actually sick in real life."

How much more clear can I be? I get why you wouldn't be happy to find your other half watching porn which is pretending to depict rape - I get that it could be a deal-breaker for you - but sick "fantasies" don't necessarily mean someone's sick, IMHO.

If I am wrong, if the data's there to prove otherwise, then the police should be rounding up anyone who searches for "dodgy" (as opposed to illegal) porn.

I note also that you would like the age of consent lowered to 14 with some rules which seem a bit odd.

The UK would not prosecute eg a 16yo and a 14 yo having consensual sex as it's not seen as being in the public interest. You would criminalise this and presumably want it enforced otherwise what's the point of changing the law.

Your example of it being legal for a 70 year old man and a 16 year old girl is supposed to shock I assume but how many girls of 16 are having genuine consensual encounters with men this age? And how many men that age would even want to tbh. Most men would find that idea pretty grim. Men are not all creeps.

In the context of this thread which is about porn the age of consent comment also seems off topic. Currently in the UK it is illegal to perform in porn before you are 18. You don't mention anything about that so in the context of the thread are you meaning that eg a film of two or more 14 year old children having sex would be legal. I want to clarify due to the randomness of a point about lowering the age of consent on s thread about porn, specifically incest porn.

You are telling me that you think that I watch incest rape when I have specifically stated that I don't.

No I didn't, you twat. You have repeatedly defended men who wank over films of passed out teens/father daughter incest - as long as its legal - I didn't once say that I think YOU personally watch incest rape.

YOU ARE CALLING ME A LIAR.

NO I'M NOT. I have no idea about your freakin porn-habits. I don't want to fucking know.

Weird how offended you are getting by it though - because aren't we supposed to think the guys who do watch that shit, aren't bad guys, ("as long as they stay within the law").

My issue is that I don't believe that googling “real” “homemade” “teen” “rape” videos & “father daughter” incest abuse videos on the world’s largest porn tube sites in itself proves anything other than that the person concerned likes porn, and some of it is relatively extreme porn of the sort I have no interest in.

If the evidence is out there that there is a correlation between googling rape porn and becoming a sex offender then perhaps we should be policing people's searches more than we do now.

If we have a problem with young people accessing porn, and accessing extreme porn, then that will need addressing. We don't ban alcohol because some people are alcoholics and some kids get hold of it when they shouldn't.

And just to be clear before someone misrepresents me again. Gay people are not disgusting. Gay sex is not disgusting. Obviously. What is disgusting to ME is the idea of ME having gay sex that I don't want, or watching gay porn I don't want to watch, just like I don;t want to watch illegal porn, or legal porn that pretends to be things that I find disgusting, like violent sex or incest "fantasies"

People have imaginations, Jedi.

If a man wants to get off on the idea of a man raping his daughter, or a young woman being raped by her brothers, then he is perfectly free to imagine that in his head while he knocks one out.

You not seeing that providing material for this market, which will be seen by lots of people adults and children who had no idea that this was a 'sexy' thing, is your lookout.

The fact that you never know what you're watching is also a massive problem.

'porn' featuring women passed out in very ordinary looking homes used to be readily available on one of the main sites.
It is a fact that site did not take down film of a girl being raped even after they were aware.
They only did anything when threatened with action from credit card companies.
Around the world, rapes are uploaded to porn sites all the time.

EG
'A troubling trend of rape videos going viral in India has led many to believe that smartphones and easy access to violent porn, coupled with a lack of sex education, could fuel sexual violence. The BBC's Divya Arya reports.

Earlier this year, a video showing a group of teenage boys trying to rip the clothes off a young woman was shared extensively on WhatsApp in India.

In it, she is urging them to stop, using the term "bhaiyya" (Hindi for brother) but they are jeering, laughing, clearly enjoying themselves.'

You prioritise the 'right' to view content depicting illegal acts over the fact of what the content can be, and the viewer has no way of knowing if they are watching acting or an assault.

There is no right to watch what appears to be an unconscious teen being gang raped. For example.

I find your arguments unconvincing and your statement about your disgust at the idea of gay sex off topic and crass.