TW: Laila Mickelwait: [children pay] a devastating price for an unchecked Big Porn sex crime industry.

Bloody hell, are you STILL going. Just to reiterate, what you said was and IS still deeply homophobic. However you try and spin it.

You've admitted you find gay sex disgusting. That's homophobic.

Secondly you've included it in a sliding scale of other things that you find disgusting. The fact that you see the completely natural, healthy show of affection between two men as on the same scale of an illegal form of abuse is absolutely VILE.

It also shows you have very little understanding of the social dynamics at play and the importance of living in a society whereby the individual is not promoted at the expense of the group. You seem to think just because you find something disgusting that means it either is/isn't without any understanding or introspection as to WHY its disgusting.

Gay sex is (presumably) disgusting to YOU because you're homophobic.

Incest is disgusting because IT IS WRONG AND ILLEGAL.

Can you honestly not see the difference?

The word puritanical is not neutral. It means what it means and tacking on some stuff to say oh sometimes it might not be because they're puritanical is not convincing.

'Defending the 75% of men and 50% of women who say they watch porn? '

Why did you decide that porn consumers needed defending, and see a thread about a girl who had found her dad's search terms and was horrified, and who related a load of really dodgy behaviour on his part?

What part of that story made you feel like the batsignal had gone up and you should rush in because this man / men who like incest porn and rape porn were under unfair attack?

My comment (and what has followed) was more about how I don't believe that that the search terms in themselves prove that her dad is sick. (But by all accounts the full article which I have not read suggest he very much is, and even if he wasn't his search history is going to cause all sorts of issues for the daughter now she's seen it).

', I just don;t think it's easy to determine what is acceptable and what isn't.'

Weelll

I'd say that a porn site or a porn company or a situation which says porn porn porn on it is probably porn.

And a BBC drama with an incest story line is probably not.

I mean that would be a pretty good indicator as a starting point I'd guess.

A title like 'teen gets gang banged by dad and his mates' or whatever. Porn would be my naive guess.

A film described as a harrowing drama of a child abused by his father and produced by C4 would probably not be.

I mean just as a starter for 10.

Defending the 75% of men and 50% of women who say they watch porn? (How much higher are the true numbers I wonder?)

Oh and your strawmanning is not very well done either.

I don't think anyone on the thread has said all porn should be illegal have they?

That's again a misdirection. It's not the topic under discussion.

This is about the girl who found her dad's really iffy searches. And then went on to take about some of his behaviour which was incredibly worrying.

I think you are naive if you think it's easy to distinguish what is valid and what isn't. Or you are an authoritarian who is happy to over-censor in order to ensure everything dodgy is banned.

Your heart is in the right place so I am not having some massive go, I just don;t think it's easy to determine what is acceptable and what isn't.

' I get that some people will have much more "puritanical" views than me '

And again...

Is this your first time at this, Jedi?

'Does this make all porn viewers disgusting? '

Jedi your agenda is showing...

I don't think there would be any difficulty in distinguishing between a film, play etc. where there is a justifiable reason for depicting rape etc. and one which consisted only of depictions of rape etc. for no purpose other than to give literal and metaphorical wankers a hard on.

Mods - maybe you should delete every post of mine on this thread.

Now, we all know some isn't, and that's a big problem. Does this make all porn viewers disgusting? IMO no, but there is an argument that no-one should consume porn in the real world as it is today other than by signing up for specialist paid sites with the porn made by women directors. Or maybe porn is so problematic no-one should watch it at all. Another legitimate argument, but again not one I agree with.

Or perhaps people are morally OK if they watch porn but stick to the "female friendly vanilla sex" and avoid the rape and incest fantasy stuff which is both more likely to be harmful to viewers, and more likely to feature non-consensual sex or trafficked performers.

They are not easy questions, and I get that some people will have much more "puritanical" views than me (and that those views may be 100% about protecting women and girls and zero to do with enforcing some sort of morality).

TLDR - Are you saying that consuming porn is always wrong because one can't be 100% certain that everything is 100% consensual and everyone is being treated 100% fairly? If so that is a very high moral standard, and is, IMHO, unrealistic.

If you're saying that relatively moral people will be careful to source porn from reputable sources and avoid the sort of porn that is more likely to be problematic to performers and young viewers then I agree.

You keep switching your arguments at high speed and not really responding to posts except to say well how to would you police that.

You want to reduce the age of consent to 14 but say you don't really know how the consent laws work in the UK.

Did you read the link to the sex offences act I provided? It's very easy to read, not complicated language. And worth it if you're doing stuff like advocating for changes to those laws.

This thread.
Behold the fucking penis.

Jedi do you often struggle to see the difference between a film with sex of whatever type in it that is acted

And a film where the sex is real and the reason the film was made was solely for masturbation?

But why even bring up what you personally find disgusting? It’s not relevant.

You’re assuming the other posters on the thread are making disgust-based arguments. They are not. Consider that they have thought about harm and consequences more carefully than you have.

But incest and rape aren't illegal because a random woman somewhere found them disgusting

Incest is illegal.
Fantasy role play glamourising and eroticising incest should not be commercially available.

I tend to think, however, that by your logic we would also need government department to oversea quality in the arts. Tracy Emin decides to make an art film depicting incest - fine. Jim Davidson decides to do a low budget exploitation movie featuring incest - not up to the required standard, not allowed (I have no problem with making Jim Davidson illegal, just to be clear). What About Tarantino? Would his incest film come under proper art or low budget exploitation?

I find the thought of incest fantasy role play sex disgusting. The fact that I find something disgusting doesn't mean it should be illegal or seen as wrong. If my criteria of disgustingness were the arbiter then gay sex would be illegal AND OBVIOUSLY GAY SEX SHOULD NOT BE ILLEGAL - GAY MEN SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO WHATEVER THEY WANT WITHIN THE BOUNDARIES OF CONSENT.

Jedi, assuming you come from a well meaning place, can I suggest you pause and think really hard about why so many people disagree with you so strongly? Obviously, we could all be wrong, we could all be uptight, judgemental, shoot first ask later types.

We could all be jumping on you for fun.

Alternatively maybe we are seeing something you haven't noticed yet. Maybe there's a problem with the way you are looking at this- that the 'consenting adults having fun' idea doesn't work when the depiction is of abuse.

Quick recap- abuse for titillation is not simply distasteful, it's an issue that needs serious attention.

The post I made pointing out that you never know what you're security watching and the fact that rape has been hosted by these sites (as they can say how are they to know either. The famous one only reacted when threatened financially). Etc etc

It's all fun and games between consenting adults though apparently.