BBC Sewing Bee

I would definitely use guys for male or female. Just any group of people. Not everyone does though.

I wouldn't say 'hey ladies' cause it's cringe but it's hardly offensive. I've been in thousands of meetings where 'thanks gentlemen' has been used (including one already this morning) and I'm pretty sure I'll survive.

(Ladies is a bit different I can see why you wouldn’t use that if the group included men.)

Yes I think guys does have a meaning of males, but it’s also used for any group of people eg I can be with a group of all women and someone will say “hi guys”. I have a friend who uses it to address her DDs. I don’t think that’s like “man” being used to mean “all humans”, as it can be used for just women, but maybe in a slightly jokey way. Hmm not sure now!

I actually think that the use of ‘guys’ is gendered and is unhelpful when talking to a mixed group. Similarly in sewing groups I don’t like it when someone addresses the group as ‘ladies’ because I know that there are a handful of men in the group and it is probably hard enough for men to say that they like to sew without judgment from others. That being said I don’t like compelled speech and don’t like it when the groups dictate what people can and can’t say.

There's now a new scheme I'm being encouraged to sign up for as a high street business to demonstrate we welcome trans and non-binary people and get a special sticker. Everyone has been really enthusiastic about it especially the businesses which depend on the fact that we're a dimorphic species! Oh, and unlikely to actually have anything that would fit a transwoman. Fwiw we already have clients who are trans, non-binary etc and no issues, we're happy to welcome anyone who wants our services and engages respectfully with my team. But I feel very uncomfortable about this and the fact that many local businesses will soon have these stickers. However, I'm not sure how to express it without sounding a bit 'all lives matter'.

You’re all being utterly transphobic. I’m unsure why but I’m positive someone will be along to tell you soon. Most likely because the word woman has been mentioned though.

*I think it is said to be

Except I can’t.

And many other women can’t either, whether its their boobs that are too big or their legs are too short for whatever the designers and buyers have filled the rails with.

It’s so grim and repressive - wtf is wrong with “guys” which generally means everyone. It’s like trying to find things to pick on to show you;re inclusive.

I have a blind friend who uses “see” in conversation and is fine with other people using it. E.g. shall we go and see a film, I see etc. Because it’s normal and although technically it’s not “inclusive”, it’s just miserable if people are falling over themselves trying not to cause offence and getting tied up in knots, and he doesn’t want that.

This banning of saying so much stuff is so destructive of real relationships and real interaction.

Groups now say you can't start a post using gendered terms e.g 'hey guys', or 'ladies' etc. In one of the groups I'm in anyone who does use gendered terms has their post locked and they are requested to edit to to be more 'inclusive' otherwise it will be taken down. I considered and started writing a private response stating my position on compelled speech but gave up as I couldn't think of a good enough angle.

Did nobody notice the use of the song Lola in the background during one of the scenes? I have to confess to a private chuckle about that...

As someone who is well outside that norm I regard it as just another one of the many pains in the arse about being female in a world mainly designed for men and have no sympathy with hurt feelings. If I want a sweater that reaches my wrists I have to buy a man’s one.

Totally agree and I do the same, also often wear men's shoes and socks. It's never occurred to me that there was any "phobia" involved, just that I'm enough of an outlier for it not to be cost-effective.

As someone who is well outside that norm I regard it as just another one of the many pains in the arse about being female in a world mainly designed for men and have no sympathy with hurt feelings. If I want a sweater that reaches my wrists I have to buy a man’s one.

Many fashion designers are gay men. No surprise a lot of women’s clothes are designed to suit the body of a teenage boy.
They're not.
Not if you mean people with flat chests. I'm tall and lanky (5' 10", size UK 8) and have a small bust and long arms, a bit like a rangy growing teenage boy (I have wide hips though).
Women's clothes don't fit me well; they're always too roomy in the bust and short in the sleeves. They are definitely cut for people with boobs.

Many fashion designers are gay men. No surprise a lot of women’s clothes are designed to suit the body of a teenage boy.

That might sound like you're suggesting that gay male fashion designers are pædophiles.

But that's just one - I'm just concerned for the bbc failing to keep up their high standards

are there any straight males on the show?

The blurb says that Damien makes "the occasional dress for his partner, Jackie."

Yes

I like the sewing bee - great entertainment - but I thought the BBC was all for inclusiveness - are there any straight males on the show?

I agree. I often think the dresses in M&S would fit men a lot better than most women.

Many fashion designers are gay men. No surprise a lot of women’s clothes are designed to suit the body of a teenage boy.

Reminds me of Sarah pascoe - being very very pro twaw, as was cariad Lloyd. They both starvin pascoe's recent BBC sitcom which had a long to camera piece about how adipose fat is stored differently in male and female bodies..... Then Sara sat back on the episode of the last leg where Adam Hills had a prostate check on live telly (good!). He was saying 'men, get your prostate check! Men, there's nothing to be scared of!'

She didn't say a word about trans women. or how not all men have prostates.

Have you heard about the knitting group purity spiral drama? It's happening in Sewing groups too. I'm in a facebook group where it's in the rules you mustn't start posts with "hello ladies" or even "ladies and gents", you must always acknowledge that not everyone is binary so gender neutral greetings only. Online groups only i'd wager. This is very much an online thing IMO.

Bust darts! Bust darts are transphobic! How very dare they, on the woke BBC, too. Bigoted bustdarts, every last one of them.

Just don't get me started on Call the Midwife...

The BBC isn't completely daft. If it brought the trans debate to Sewing Bee, it would prompt too many questions, so their answer is the introduce trans as a contestant. Just another hypocritical action by the Beeb. By the back door so as to quash debate.

All those supporters of critical race theory can only get this stuff accepted, by mission creep. Put it out for debate and watch it fall.

I think this is a startling part of the whole debate. The majority of life and the world is going about their business happily recognising binary sex

Yes, the people who are very engaged on one side of this debate are presumably in massive denial about the fact that it wouldn't even occur to the vast, vast majority of people in the world to question what the words 'woman' and 'man' mean, and that they can fairly effortlessly recognise the difference between them, regardless of how they dressand what they call themselves.