Cosmetic surgery and feminism

• I don't mean to use 'fail', btw, I don't see it as failing. Many women who wish to do so are prevented from breastfeeding or hampered or let down by a complex interplay of factors outwith their control.

Yes, absolutely. You're far from alone.

I think it's worth remembering that there is a huge industry in whose interests it is to make sure that women fail at breastfeeding.

And a huge industry/industries who benefit/s from women's insecurities about their bodies.

I agree that stopping the bullying is the biggest issue, just keep trying to teach people that people are all different.

It's a huge issue - the interplay of society, the media, schools, family, expectations in a whole host of situations.

And amongst that people are making individual decisions alongside adverts that tell them they can be fixed in various ways.

Breasts are such a source of discomfort for so many women. Too big, too small, the wrong shape, not perky enough. They mark us out, they draw attention, they spoil the line, they get in the way, they let us down, they fail us, they cause problems.

It's almost like our insecurities become focussed on them.

Ive actually had breast surgery quite a few years back due to my breasts ballooning so much in pregnancy and then shrinking. I hated them so much that it began to consume me, almost dysmorphia. Did I have a responsibility to normalise sagging crinkly breasts to other women? Did i have a responsibility to stay natural?

It's interesting to read your comments. I went through similar feelings after ending up very flat chested (instead of just small). It was a horrible thing to experience but after living with it for a few years I got through the feelings and am fine now.

I do think that a mental health approach to mental problems with body shape should be used before unnecessary operations.

Taking the example in the OP, breast reduction for physical pain isn't cosmetic surgery in my opinion.

Extensive / prolonged bullying about a physical feature can absolutely destroy mental health though, sadly (I work in psychiatry). Its a really tricky one.

The male gaze in general is oppressive and im glad we know about the problems with pandering to it all the time, but obviously many women are actually heterosexual and being attractive to men brings a lot of benefit to women as well as many negative aspects with the pressure.

its just improved my own body image so much in a very private way and has not led to further surgeries or fixation on anything else

I completely understand where you're coming from.

There is a certain type of feminist who is obsessed with "the male gaze' - who is incapable of believing that anything they personally disapprove of or don't like can ever be a choice made simply for the person's own satisfaction.

It's a damp, cold Bank Holiday Monday and I probably won't go outdoors. I'll still put my hair up and apply foundation, eye- liner and mascara because I like it- it's certainly not for my husband's benefit. Oh no doubt the counter to that is that I'm just brain washed to think that way, I'm not enlightened, blah, blah.

I know a woman who was constantly bullied and abused for the size of her nose - by strangers - life shouldn't be that way but many people are absolute dicks. I think she completely made the right decision having a rhinoplasty before her self esteem was even more shattered and her mental health twatted.

Surely if your son is highly likely to be bullied for having sticky out ears then exploring surgery with him would be the kindest thing to do?

I said "hectoring" rather than "lecturing".

You were prescribing what you considered acceptable and anything beyond your prescribed list was vanity.

If your son wanted surgery would you refuse it?

A boob job is not a feminist act.
Having visibly and noticeably unusual or damaged breasts and not giving a shit is likely much more of a feminist act than having surgery on them, and its good to talk about the implications of the pressure young women in particular are under to look and feel 'sexy', but its also reductive and unhelpful to pick apart womens reasons too much, without also maybe looking at the pressure young feminists can be under to eschew all beauty treatments and parts of the whole cultural mating dance type stuff when a lot of people get a lot of confidence and pleasure out of it too.

Ive actually had breast surgery quite a few years back due to my breasts ballooning so much in pregnancy and then shrinking. I hated them so much that it began to consume me, almost dysmorphia. Did I have a responsibility to normalise sagging crinkly breasts to other women? Did i have a responsibility to stay natural?
I dont think I did or do, but I dont push an artificial look as standard to others either, but I actually feel slightly ashamed of the fact ive had them in some circles, and yet for the most part, its just improved my own body image so much in a very private way and has not led to further surgeries or fixation on anything else.
I sometimes feel annoyed that breast surgery is seen as anti feminist yet teeth straightening or scar removal or certain other surgeries dont have the stigma.

These photographs are on the Internet so I think it's ok to link them.

Personally I think if any "feminist" adopts a moral high ground about telling this young woman she shouldn't have had the surgery my reaction would be "bore off and mind your own business"

www.google.com/search?q=cosmetic%20surgery%20ears%20stick%20out&tbm=isch&tbs=rimg:CSrWMYrWmzdlYYiyRUcM9SDs&client=ms-android-samsung-rev2&prmd=imnv&hl=en-US&sa=X&ved=0CBIQuIIBahcKEwjwxrb7k63wAhUAAAAAHQAAAAAQDw&biw=360&bih=577#imgrc=ySy4SDfO01mU8M

I think there is a difference between fixing features that are outside the norm, and changing a feature due to a preference. I feel the former was used to sell cosmetic surgery to a wider audience, by making it the subjective "I don't like my breasts," which can be everyone, rather than the more objective "my breasts are different sizes and I'd like them to match," where there is something unusual to feel self conscious about.

It would be great if we could feel comfortable with unusual features, but I think it is too big an ask to make someone live that way in an attempt to normalise them.

I might be biased, as I had a colostomy bag reversal, which was entirely cosmetic - no health benefits. I hated having a stoma and it really affected my life (I was young at the time, as someone now in their late 30s, I'd cope okay).

I do however, think that these feelings of hate towards a body part should be investigated further if the body part is perfectly healthy and normal. So I would have differential treatment pathways for cosmetic surgery that brings an outlier within normal bounds, and for treatment that just moves someone within these boundaries to a slightly different place. The latter, I think, is more entwined with a deeper issue and the dissatisfaction will just move on to a different body part .

Sorry meant "I'm a feminist and I'll decide what is acceptable surgery and what is just vanity"

'The most popular cosmetic surgery among women in the UK in 2020 was breast augmentation with over 4.6 thousand procedures, while breast reduction was the second most common surgery with approximately 3.1 thousand procedures.' (www.statista.com/statistics/589791/cosmetic-surgery-procedures-performed-united-kingdom-uk/)

I've never had cosmetic surgery and never considered it but I really dislike the OP's hectoring tone of "I'm a female and I'll decide what is acceptable surgery and what is just vanity"

I'd also take issue with the assertion that it’s only for "the male gaze". I would imagine that in cases of say a huge nose / sticky out ears it’s solely for the benefit of the individual.

As for the suggestion that men don't bother- I've never had cosmetic surgery but my husband spent several thousand pounds on cosmetic dentistry. I didn't see anything wrong with his teeth but it was his money , his choice and I certainly wasn't going to lecture him about why he should not do it.

I must ask him if he was motivated to do it because of "the male gaze".

I'm not a fan. At all. But tbh what is the point of criticising or vilifying women's choices to have cosmetic surgery when we know that those choices are not made in a vacuum?

However much someone may claim that their boob job or fillers are their decision and to make them feel good, rather than to live up to others' expectations, that can never be 100% true, because if society saw it as desirable to have small or uneven boobs or thin lips, they wouldn't be having that procedure. None of us are immune to society's ideas of what's beautiful. Even if we choose the opposite look, it's still a reaction to the same ideals.

I cannot imagine having any surgical or intrusive cosmetic procedure unless I had been in some way disfigured by an accident etc. Quute apart from my principles, the safety risks and discomfort alone would put me off, never mind the waste of money and the fact that I inevitably think people look better in their 'before' photos.

Is breast reconstruction after cancer anti feminist.
Or a breast uplift after breastfeeding children makes the woman feel disfigured?
Is getting a brace on your teeth antifeminist?

When we agree with a great deal of feminist theory does that make us feminists or do we also have a responsibility to dress in a feminist way.

I didn't need any of what I have had done but I wanted it for vanity. Doesn't make me any less of a feminist.