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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Legal gender affirmation improves mental health for trans people

73 replies

Shizuku · 02/05/2021 10:35

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7229467/

"Findings: Legal gender affirmation was significantly associated with lower reports of depression, anxiety, somatization, global psychiatric distress, and upsetting responses to gender-based mistreatment."

OP posts:
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Ereshkigalangcleg · 03/05/2021 00:08

Brava Barracker, what a brilliant post Thanks

RufustheBadgeringReindeer · 02/05/2021 22:19

[quote R0wantrees]What was that thing a few years ago...the plain English campaign

Established in 1979, the Plain English Campaign is still operating.
"We campaign against gobbledygook, jargon and misleading public information. In this section of our site, you can read about our awards, see examples of communication at its worst, and read about some of our past campaigns."

www.plainenglish.co.uk/[/quote]
Thanks r0wan

SunsetBeetch · 02/05/2021 22:18

20:44allmywhat

Skyliner001

@SunsetBeetch Wow. Stalker much? 😬

Wow. Stalker much?

This gave me a good chuckle - so gloriously self-defeating in context.

Grin
DerryWitch · 02/05/2021 20:48

@CorvusPurpureus

Looks like a funny thing happened on the way to the wrong forum?
Brava! Grin
allmywhat · 02/05/2021 20:44

[quote Skyliner001]@SunsetBeetch Wow. Stalker much? 😬[/quote]
Wow. Stalker much?

This gave me a good chuckle - so gloriously self-defeating in context.

Delphinium20 · 02/05/2021 20:32

You can adopt any belief, however unsubstantiated, but you cannot misappropriate a meaningful word that already has a material meaning which excludes you, by definition. You cannot take a word which already applies to other people, and not to you, and demand that this word's meaning be changed to mean the opposite, for your benefit. You cannot do that, and then actively prevent the group of people this word previously described from distinguishing themselves from you
@Barracker BRILLIANT!

The parallels of trans activism to religious belief are quite clear. As Shiz is American like I am, I recognize their evangelical belief messaging and argumentation. Cheerful repeating of mantras, refusal to answer difficult questions and relentless incursions where nobody invited them..."Let us all now pray together the prayer I insist you pray."

Barracker · 02/05/2021 19:58

I'm delighted with the lovely compliments, especially yours Skyliner001. I do try to write in a way that a child would understand, it's absolutely true. If I nailed it successfully this time, I'm thrilled. Thanks!

Helleofabore · 02/05/2021 19:15

The ‘way’ you dismissed

Obviously.

Helleofabore · 02/05/2021 19:08

Not at all skyliner. Most people who read these threads will have picked up that trait from your posts. It is very obvious that you rarely post evidence to support the discussion at hand.

The fact you dismissed barrakers post was also immature and an ad hom attack. No thoughtful or insightful contribution at all. No clear argument to support your post seems to be a pattern.

Skyliner001 · 02/05/2021 18:50

@SunsetBeetch Wow. Stalker much? 😬

NecessaryScene1 · 02/05/2021 18:48

Clarity of language reflects insight and intelligence.

Barracker is firmly at the Orwell end of the Orwell-Butler scale.

R0wantrees · 02/05/2021 18:46

What was that thing a few years ago...the plain English campaign

Established in 1979, the Plain English Campaign is still operating.
"We campaign against gobbledygook, jargon and misleading public information. In this section of our site, you can read about our awards, see examples of communication at its worst, and read about some of our past campaigns."

www.plainenglish.co.uk/

Helleofabore · 02/05/2021 18:41

Wonderful post barraker.

And again, we see yet another USA study being suggested to be relevant to the UK.

Not only that, but the suggestion that to improve the mental health of a group of people means negatively impacting the rights of another group of people is appropriate and best practice shows a clearly biased agenda. And also show a significant lack of judgement by the person who suggests it.

Now, if you wish to start a conversation about how to best address the mental health issues faced by transpeople, (particularly transmen as they are female and many on this board centre females,) and how to do this without negatively impacting the rights of females, let’s do that. And by rights, I am talking about those needed to address the sexist discrimination experienced by females during to their sexed bodies.

And by female, I mean those with bodies formed around the production of large gametes, regardless of whether they produce those large gametes now, have done or will do in the future, or not. Females who experience discrimination because of their sexed bodies from even before birth in some instances, but usually from birth. Something that males seem to be less inclined to acknowledge.

Oh, and let’s also discuss the discrimination that those females (with bodies as described above) face by males in the trans community. This includes the lack of acknowledgement of the significantly high health risks faced by female transitioners compared to the still high by the way, but lower risk of male transition.

And more significantly the fact that in the UK, at the moment, the majority of young transitioners are female.

Was that your intention in posting this OP.

If so, then thank you for being open to those conversations. The readers always appreciate the extra information that gets posted by the time these threads finish.

Shall we start those conversations now?

WhatWouldPhyllisCraneDo · 02/05/2021 17:19

JK Rowling wrote some books for children. Her use of language and the history and meaning of words is inspired.
Although I suspect certain people here have 'cancelled' her.

In the last 30 days have I been upset because of something to do with my gender? Dunno. As Im yet to see a definition of what 'woman' as a gender is I don't know if I am one. My sex? Yes definitely. Sadly my nieces are being given the same messages that have damaged me growing up.

Is it acceptable that we legally afirm trans gender people at the expense of other people's (mainly womens) mental health? Why is a trans person's mental health more important than mine?

RufustheBadgeringReindeer · 02/05/2021 17:17

@CorvusPurpureus

Clarity in language is a good thing, skyliner, & especially the ability to trenchantly express one's opinion without obfuscation.
What was that thing a few years ago...the plain English campaign

When i was working in banks and insurance companies there was a huge push to make our communication clearer both verbally and in writing

If I couldn’t explain things to a customer so they understood, the fault was mine and not theirs

SunsetBeetch · 02/05/2021 17:16

[quote Skyliner001]@Barracker Love that you write like you are writing a children's book, and everyone here tells you how intelligent you are 😂😂[/quote]
Have you ever posted anything that isn't a maximum of two sentences of snark? 'Cause I don't think I've seen it if you have.

CorvusPurpureus · 02/05/2021 17:13

Clarity in language is a good thing, skyliner, & especially the ability to trenchantly express one's opinion without obfuscation.

allmywhat · 02/05/2021 17:10

Love that you write like you are writing a children's book,

You're a bit clueless about child development, aren't you?

lazylinguist · 02/05/2021 17:08

Are you one of those foolish people who mistakenly think that long words and over-complicated sentences, rather than logical thinking and clarity, are a sign of intelligence, Skyliner001? And are you perhaps also under the impression that writing books for children requires no intelligence? I'm afraid you're wrong on both counts.

HermioneWeasley · 02/05/2021 17:06

@Shizuku if this is true, then it’s the it wonderful that there is a way for that to happen which has appropriate legal and medical safeguards. What is your point?

RufustheBadgeringReindeer · 02/05/2021 17:06

[quote Skyliner001]@Barracker Love that you write like you are writing a children's book, and everyone here tells you how intelligent you are 😂😂[/quote]
One day you too will write something that makes everyone think you are intelligent skyliner

I have every confidence in you

GreyhoundG1rl · 02/05/2021 17:03

[quote Skyliner001]@Barracker Love that you write like you are writing a children's book, and everyone here tells you how intelligent you are 😂😂[/quote]
Just why? Hmm

Skyliner001 · 02/05/2021 17:01

@Barracker Love that you write like you are writing a children's book, and everyone here tells you how intelligent you are 😂😂

R0wantrees · 02/05/2021 16:53

@Barracker

Legal recognition of the opposite of the truth. It doesn't work. At best, the law can recognise that a person holds a religious, unsubstantiated belief. But it must not confuse and conflate that belief with another group's actual physically recognisable status. Recognise a belief? Perhaps. But it can only be called by a word NOT already in use or used to define someone else's material existence.

For example, if a devout, practicing Christian declared themselves an atheist, then demanded that the definition of atheism be changed to include an active and zealous belief in God, requiring regular devoted worship, and an affirmation that atheism should affirm that God is real and loves us all? Perhaps with a side order of 'atheists who continue to profess that there is no God are not inclusive of God-worshipping atheists and are now guilty of hate speech because the definition of atheism has evolved to be inclusive of faithful believers. Devout, god-fearing atheists are REAL ATHEISTS.'

That's a no, isn't it? You can adopt any belief, however unsubstantiated, but you cannot misappropriate a meaningful word that already has a material meaning which excludes you, by definition. You cannot take a word which already applies to other people, and not to you, and demand that this word's meaning be changed to mean the opposite, for your benefit. You cannot do that, and then actively prevent the group of people this word previously described from distinguishing themselves from you.

Frankly put, you cannot force a square peg into a round hole. And if you chisel out extra corners to that hole to make it fit square pegs, you've simply created a square hole. It's not round any more, and nor is the square peg it was chiselled to fit. No amount of forcing people to 'recognise' obviously square holes and obviously square pegs as 'a different type of circle' works.

"It's still round, it's just round with corners and has been expanded to be welcoming and inclusive of square pegs. It's still a round hole, but with four sharp corners. All pegs that fit through this altered hole are round. Even square pegs. Which you must now recognise as round. Because they fit through the altered hole. Which is round. Round things can have corners now. Educate yourself."

Female/ woman is not a gender, it's a sex.
Women are round pegs. The word woman is the round hole through which we fit. And the law uses these words, these holes through which some fit and some don't, to ensure it caters properly to round pegs.

Because historically, and still currently, the law catered to only the square pegs. If you were a round peg, you couldn't vote. If you are round, you'll be paid less, you'll have to put up with being underrepresented, you'll be imprisoned for controlling that round peg of a body of yours in ways we don't want.

Men can try to chisel out extra corners to that hole, to that word woman, so that they can force an awkward fit through it. But it simply creates a square hole. It makes all the holes square.

And we can all still see the difference between square pegs and round pegs. And we can see that what was once a round hole has been chiselled into a square too. We will always know the truth.
There is no point in these laws that force everyone to pretend and lie and 'recognise' what isn't true. It takes a hell of a lot of chiselling and renaming reality, a hell of a lot of forcing square and round pegs through the same hole, compelling them to pretend they both fit it perfectly with no differences. And STILL people know.

There is no point to forcing any of this. Forcing people to pretend to recognise what isn't recognisable.

The sexes exist, and we are physically different. This cannot be changed. We cannot 'recognise' square pegs as round, and we cannot redefine round to encompass square. We can try, but people will resist, reality will prevail, and the effort will always fail.

Because we will always be different and THAT is what will always be recognised.

Brava! Wine
RufustheBadgeringReindeer · 02/05/2021 16:12

@OhHolyJesus

I love how your brain works Barracker. 😍
Its a thing of beauty isnt it