Caitlyn Jenner OPPOSES trans girls competing in girls sport

People online are calling CJ a hypocrite because she plays golf with women. Perhaps there’s a more of an even playing field in these sports. It’s not reliant on strength as much perhaps? There are other skills involved.

But does she play off the ladies’ tees?

There is definitely a male advantage in golf - club head speed and driving distance for instance.

@WindyPudding

And three sets of changing rooms and toilets as well .

I hate to bring that subject back but it would show acceptance and choice . Would it keep people happy though ? If they are proud of their choices then in theory it should .

@2021ismyyear

Is that competitive golf for medals though ? And golf is a game always played by mixed groups unless at competition level ? A bit like tennis .

So yes I agree in some “ sports “ it would not matter . Like darts

Male , female and ? Oh I don’t know a word that would be completely inoffensive

How about male, female and "people who think being male or female is irrelevant". But "open" covers it too.

The results in the open category would surely reveal once and for all whether it does matter...

I actually thought it was incredibly irresponsible. Talking loud and saying nothing, and set DH off on a mega rant.

If we cancel debate we are in a very slippery slope .

Also perhaps it depends on the sport, thinking about it. Men playing women at rugby could have disastrous consequences. Boxing? Karate? Seems incredibly dangerous. Athletics would be very unfair.

Something like archery? Gymnastics? Bowling? Maybe not so much.

People online are calling CJ a hypocrite because she plays golf with women. Perhaps there’s a more of an even playing field in these sports. It’s not reliant on strength as much perhaps? There are other skills involved.

Ah...

Not aligning with Jenner. However it is a conversation that is needed. And as a high profile trans woman who was also an athlete she is also in an excellent position to comment.

As an interesting aside when the Nike Vaporfly shoe was released it has been found to give a 4-8% advantage to athletes that wear it. A lot of athletes (Male) shouted it was unfair that they were unable to wear due to their sponsorship deals. It is quieter now that other companies are making this type of shoe. (Kipchoge has worn these in his sub two hour marathon)

In women's sports transwomen are likely to have more than a 4% advantage, yet they have to suck it up.

@GreyhoundG1rl

A debate, eh? Is that allowed?

A lot of hyperbole, no facts.

@wroxie

Absolutely not true.

I bet if I read a lot of your posts I would agree with some and not others . It actually would be foolish to deny that we can look at individual subjects rather than the bigger picture .

Males have a biological advantage over females. Males are not females.

This “alignment” tribal idea is all part of the ongoing dumbing down of debate. People are divided into goodies (the left) and baddies (Tories/Republicans, corporate leaders, right wing celebrities) and all your opinions need to line up with your chosen team, otherwise people’s heads explode.

I am pretty damn left wing, but would be screamed at by most people in my (creative) industry for being a fascist if I admitted I am GC.

What happened to nuance? Logic? Discussion? Complexity?

@LazyHorizon

Exactly . You can vote for a political party and still strongly disagree with some of their policies . In fact I would think most people when they vote dont blindly follow everything within that party .

And even with your friends and family you don’t agree with everything they do or say .

My hope re California is that whoever is standing for the Democrats (or maybe a centrist independent ) would note this as a point of basic common sense and decency towards women and girls which should not be the sole preserve of the right wingers in the US. It may well take a transwoman such as Jenner to point that out, as they've clearly not been listening to women and girls for quite a while,p.

Your trans panic has turned many of you into single issue voters who will support the very worst politicians based on their stance on trans issues (or withdraw your support from politicians who could actually make a difference to women, families, and people who aren't white millionaire, if you don't think they're anti-trans enough).

If this doesn't apply to you, then I'm not talking to you. But I know damn well it applies to a huge percentage of you. You are, indeed, being played as fools.

Wroxie is completely missing the point. I don’t agree with piers Morgan on every point but IN THIS CASE I agree with him. He is in agreement with CJ. It is possible to agree with people on certain things and not others.

I’m definitely not voting for Jenner

And nobody is playing me for anything. Anyone who really thinks about it will conclude that male bodies can’t be included in women’s sports, and the sooner we realise that yes, even people who you might think are awful fascists might think the same, the sooner we can stop debating all of this and letting it be so divisive.

unsure, it might help to think of women’s sport being a “protected” category, and like Errol says, the obvious answer is to have “Open” (men, transwomen, transmen on testosterone, non binary male people) and “protected” (women, transmen not using testoerone, non binary female people). That setup can also accommodate people with differences of sex development (intersex).

“This is who you choose to align with.”

Believe it or not, not everyone takes a tribalistic view of the world. It’s possible to agree with Jenner on this point without being Team Republicans. Most people past secondary school age should be capable of individual thought.

Do men also have increased lung capacity? Do women perform worse when they are menstruating? Do men (that obviously don’t have periods) also get anemia as often? So many questions!

Yes. Substantially greater capacity and VO2 Max.

Yes, it can do - but, depending on the sport, the nature of elite training means a fair number of athletes lose their menstrual cycle (creates additional issues). Plus, the cycle increases vulnerability to particular types of injuries and their recovery times.

Men and women have different clinical thresholds for anaemia - it's not clear that women should automatically have a lower threshold. (Complicated for a variety of reasons.)

A debate, eh? Is that allowed?

There's going to be a debate about it on Sky News at half past.

I just mentioned this to DH, he says it will be a short conversation

Jenner is a self-interested right-wing celebrebuplican who will say exactly what her focus group says she needs to say to appeal to the worst, most hateful, and most ignorant voters in the United States. She supports policies that are anti-woman (trans or not), anti-family, and racist. She's a fucking fascist just like the rest of her party.

This is who you choose to align with. You're being used and played as fools. It would be funny if it weren't so destructive and so very, very sad.