Caitlyn Jenner OPPOSES trans girls competing in girls sport

Excellent post Redapplewreath

The bottom line is quite simply: did female athletes go through all their training, their efforts, their struggles, to provide emotional care and inclusive support to a male athlete?

This.

In fact, that whole post!

Records also show that this huge discrepancy between the sexes begins well before puberty.

Laura Muir's British 1500m record 3.55.22 would rank her 220th among British men in 2019 (last full year of athletics competition)

If we take the 10th fastest British woman ever at 1500 (so, still very very good) we see that Kirsty Wade ran 4.00.73 - a time beaten in 2019 by 413 British men

thepowerof10.info/rankings/rankinglist.aspx?event=1500&agegroup=ALL&sex=M&year=2019

in every athletics discipline men run faster, throw longer, jump further and higher - it's not even remotely close

I don't know how people can buy the argument that somehow other physical differences matter more than the divide between the sexes when it comes to sport.

If that were the case wouldn't we see a considerable entree of the most talented women into male sport? Maybe not a female Premiership footballer but playing in the lower leagues? Or a woman setting a time that would qualify for a men's semi final? And yet you don't.

People online are calling CJ a hypocrite because she plays golf with women

Its not unusual to discover some hypocrisy in those male TS who claim a moderate position.

Sex mattered in sport and women only sport was accepted as perfectly sensible until male people wanted it.

The endless splitting of hairs on how much it affects female athletes negatively is merely establishing some temporary boundaries on just how much grace they will be permitted in the providing of their sports to male entrants.

The bottom line is quite simply: did female athletes go through all their training, their efforts, their struggles, to provide emotional care and inclusive support to a male athlete?

Look at your daughter. Are you prepared to tell her that by accident of being born female, her ambitions, her dreams, her feelings, her needs, must always come second to her primary purpose of serving male interests?

And then explain too that no, sex isn't supposed to exist or matter, and yet hers does. This is wholly sex based thinking underpinning all of this, complete with the same hierarchy. There is no respect for female born people anywhere in it.

Just want to draw attention to this:

High school boys in 2016 did better than the Olympian women's athlete, who actually set a world record for women that year.

People online are calling CJ a hypocrite because she plays golf with women

Playing a social non-contact sport like golf with women is a very different matter to CJ playing a sport against them.

www.livescience.com/59289-why-men-run-faster-than-women.html

if a sport wants to segregate by................it can, but it is likely that those sports will then become male dominated.

Not just likely.... will definitely become male dominated!!!!!

For as long as sport is segregated by sex, sex must matter. If a sport wants to segregate by height, or lactic acid production, or lung capacity, or fast twitch muscle fibres, then it can, but it is likely that those sports will then become male dominated.

There are countless differences between the sexes in things like vo2 Max, hip angle and the effect that has on gait, body fat, grip strength, hand size...

The hurdle height in the women's contests has been set, considering the standard range in height across the female population.

The hurdle height in the men's contests has been set, considering the standard range in height across the male population.

Although there are women over six foot, I invite you to consider this proposition: if there was a rule that all people standing for parliament had to be over six foot, would it be unfair on women? After all, there are women over six foot, and there are men under six foot.

In 100 men, you would get many more men over 6’ than women. So in sports where height is an advantage, if you make it mixed sex, then men get an advantage. A woman would have to be exceptional to meet the standard of a fairly average man.

You realise that your argument is to have all sports mixed sex, don’t you? If the differences between the sexes aren’t significant, then why would we bother at all?

Jonny Wilkinson is a few inches short of 6 ft and I bet he can power through the wind better than a six foot woman.

British Rowing, for instance, deliberately appeals to women over 5’10” for their programme.

But that’s quite different to competing against male bodied competitors with all of the various physiological advantages they enjoy.

Some women (born female) are over 6ft too though

Yes, Venus Williams is over 6ft, but would be soundly beaten by any top, or even most middle ranking men of shorter stature ( tennis)

The very same athlete who also feels that they have a disadvantage racing against women because at 6ft2 the wind resistance is greater

People online are calling CJ a hypocrite because she plays golf with women

Any non contact sport which is played for leisure purposes, and in which the sexes wish to play together is not the issue. The issue is two-fold:

1. Competitive sports, certainly at championship/medal winning stage need to be single sex to ensure fair competition for women and girls.

2. Women and girls are not only at a disadvantage, but actively in physical danger in mixed sex contact sports.

Should also be noted that women's hurdles are lower than men's to compensate for height difference.
Winner is over 6 ft.

Some women (born female) are over 6ft too though.

@334bu

Is that the same athlete that in 2016 ranked 200th in male college sport, in 2017 ranked 390th, took a year out in 2018 and then became women’s national champion in 2019?

^I’ve had a quick look on Twitter and there’s many people with opposing views. One said though that men and women are built different so the male body may have an unfair advantage over the female body (which I would agree) but they also said many people have advantages over other components so where does it stop? - some people have naturally bigger lungs/muscles, some are genetically taller, some races are built better to do certain sports, women with smaller breasts find it easier to run than those with big beasts, if you’re rich you can pay to go to specialist clubs and get better training than those who can’t - I agree with Caitlin Jenner but actually these are all good arguments as it is never possible to have full equality/fairness especially if we bring privilege into it.^

The biggest difference of all is the one between the sexes and there is no way to mitigate it.
Mediocre male athletes can defeat elite women and male athletes in their forties and fifties can compete against and easily beat women in their twenties.

Differences within sexes e.g. some women having longer legs than other women are not the same as differences between the sexes which attached shows very well

People online are calling CJ a hypocrite because she plays golf with women.

I’ve only ever seen her playing with men but I guess that’s because the majority of people who play golf are men.

I’ve had a quick look on Twitter and there’s many people with opposing views. One said though that men and women are built different so the male body may have an unfair advantage over the female body (which I would agree) but they also said many people have advantages over other components so where does it stop? - some people have naturally bigger lungs/muscles, some are genetically taller, some races are built better to do certain sports, women with smaller breasts find it easier to run than those with big beasts, if you’re rich you can pay to go to specialist clubs and get better training than those who can’t - I agree with Caitlin Jenner but actually these are all good arguments as it is never possible to have full equality/fairness especially if we bring privilege into it.