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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Caitlyn Jenner OPPOSES trans girls competing in girls sport

365 replies

hm246 · 01/05/2021 22:33

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9533463/Caitlyn-Jenner-says-OPPOSES-trans-girls-competing-girls-sport.html

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trancepants · 04/05/2021 07:32

@Binglebong

Does anyone know if there are any athletic/physical sports records that women hold over men? I have a vague idea there might be a distance one but it's an exception that proves the rule.
It's emerging as a possibility that women are better at ultra-endurance. In recent years a number of women have blown previous, set by men, ultra-endurance records out of the water. There are a number of possible biological explanations for this in that women have slower twitch muscle fibre, so while we can't go as fast, it's very possible they allow us to just keep going and going for longer than men.

uk.runningheroes.com/en/blog/the-rise-of-the-ultra-women

Wishing14 · 04/05/2021 05:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PastMyBestBeforeDate · 03/05/2021 19:25

Thanks for clarification Donkey :)

WoolOfBat · 03/05/2021 17:26

What annoyed me on Twitter was people accusing Jenner of pulling up the ladder after them.

Eh, no! Jenner competed in the correct sex class, kicked ass and thinks that other people should do the same.

TheWeeDonkey · 03/05/2021 17:18

@Redapplewreath

Sex mattered in sport and women only sport was accepted as perfectly sensible until male people wanted it.

The endless splitting of hairs on how much it affects female athletes negatively is merely establishing some temporary boundaries on just how much grace they will be permitted in the providing of their sports to male entrants.

The bottom line is quite simply: did female athletes go through all their training, their efforts, their struggles, to provide emotional care and inclusive support to a male athlete?

Look at your daughter. Are you prepared to tell her that by accident of being born female, her ambitions, her dreams, her feelings, her needs, must always come second to her primary purpose of serving male interests?

And then explain too that no, sex isn't supposed to exist or matter, and yet hers does. This is wholly sex based thinking underpinning all of this, complete with the same hierarchy. There is no respect for female born people anywhere in it.

This is so important, woman haven't fought for recognition and respect in sport for the nect generation to be consigned to slicing the half time oranges.
TheWeeDonkey · 03/05/2021 17:15

@PastMyBestBeforeDate

Isn't basketball a non contact sport? Not that that means it would be fair mind you.
My son loves basketball, its a great spectator sport (apart from the squeaky trainers) because its very fast paced, but its definitely a contact sport. Not a sport for males and females to compete with each other.
TheFleegleHasLanded · 03/05/2021 17:03

350 comments on the Times article now, and many are a thing of beauty Smile

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/d6b20ee8-ab5f-11eb-9dc9-5a05c2885d62?shareToken=7b1ab30000723df1b37c6b3df0fb2e11

P.S. What happened to Jo March?

Caitlyn Jenner OPPOSES trans girls competing in girls sport
SunsetBeetch · 03/05/2021 13:14

@334bu

No 6ft plus elite woman athlete is faster, stronger, can jump higher or longer than any male elite athlete of a similar height. They just can't and that is why female only sport came into existence, so that woman could actually compete.
Exactly. As we well know, males have numerous physical advantages over women. If people like Jameela really don't know this, they are the ones that need to "educate themselves".
Letsgetreadytocrumble · 03/05/2021 12:45

I'm always agog at Jameela Jamil's posts - can she really be that dim?! It's as if she is trolling or something...

She has learnt to turn off the comments though so that people can't show her up as being the utter wally that she is.

andyoldlabour · 03/05/2021 12:42

The female runner Dafne Schippers of the Netherlands and the male runner Kim Collins from S Kitts and Nevis are both 5' 10" tall.

Personal bests:

Dafne Schippers - 100m 10.81s, 200m 21.63s
Kim Collins - 100m 9.93s, 200m 20.2s

There are far more differences than height when it comes to performance. It comes down to the many differences of anatomy and physiology between the sexes.

Letsgetreadytocrumble · 03/05/2021 12:41

@Redapplewreath

Sex mattered in sport and women only sport was accepted as perfectly sensible until male people wanted it.

The endless splitting of hairs on how much it affects female athletes negatively is merely establishing some temporary boundaries on just how much grace they will be permitted in the providing of their sports to male entrants.

The bottom line is quite simply: did female athletes go through all their training, their efforts, their struggles, to provide emotional care and inclusive support to a male athlete?

Look at your daughter. Are you prepared to tell her that by accident of being born female, her ambitions, her dreams, her feelings, her needs, must always come second to her primary purpose of serving male interests?

And then explain too that no, sex isn't supposed to exist or matter, and yet hers does. This is wholly sex based thinking underpinning all of this, complete with the same hierarchy. There is no respect for female born people anywhere in it.

I'm quoting this again because I think it's the post of the thread, in fact the post of this whole issue!
PurpleWh1teGreen · 03/05/2021 12:22

@Justhadathought

...of course nobody would force you to vote for her.
I don't. Not only is she a hardline right winger, she is also a poor constituency MP and my letters to her on women's rights have received standard party copy and paste responses.
334bu · 03/05/2021 11:23

No 6ft plus elite woman athlete is faster, stronger, can jump higher or longer than any male elite athlete of a similar height. They just can't and that is why female only sport came into existence, so that woman could actually compete.

Erikrie · 03/05/2021 11:17

I think Kemi is fabulous.

borntobequiet · 03/05/2021 11:15

Some women (born female) are over 6ft too though.

The use of the word “some” immediately negates the value of this as an argument. About 1% of women in the US are 6ft or over, presumably less elsewhere.

Justhadathought · 03/05/2021 11:04

...of course nobody would force you to vote for her.

Justhadathought · 03/05/2021 11:03

As someone who would make Ian Duncan-Smith look like a liberal leftie. I really hope not

Personally think she's a brilliant performer and has real class and integrity. She doesn't toe the PC party line, and leaves her opponents looking utterly incompetent.

NotBadConsidering · 03/05/2021 10:51

The fourth photo is the Dougal cows picture. They’re stood on different bits of the floor FFS! Does Jamil think they’re stood next to each other?😆😆

One of the photos is of Muggsy Bogues, the shortest ever player at 5’3”. There will never be a 5’3” woman in the NBA. Ever.

Tibtom · 03/05/2021 10:44

@Justhadathought

There is something slightly amusing about the idea that the first trans governor would be a Republican

A bit like the possibility that the first black leader of a British political party could be a Conservative ( I'm thinking Kemi Badenoch).

Or the fact that the Conservatives have had two female prime ministers.
HandInGlove85 · 03/05/2021 10:37

To be fair, it's not all perspective - in those pictures there's Manute Bol (7'7"), Gheorghe Mureșan (7'7"), Yao Ming (7'6") and I can't recognise the other one.

But crucially, Basketball does not separate based on height. We have separate men's and women's games because of the obvious and well-known biological advantages that men have.

LostToucan · 03/05/2021 10:36

X-posted with Errol Smile

LostToucan · 03/05/2021 10:36

@SunsetBeetch

Yes, on of the consequences of putting yourself in an echo chamber is that you can make an absolute Father Dougal McGuire of yourself with nobody to stop you.
And of course choosing the tallest ever NBA players such as Sun Mingming (7’9”), and Manute Bol and Gheorghe Mureșan (both 7’7”) to prove what point exactly? That some people are physical outliers and oh, let’s think about it, got picked to play a sport where height is an advantage?
ErrolTheDragon · 03/05/2021 10:29

The bottom left photo seemed to show rather clearly that size does matter in basketball. (I'd imagine there are many SE Asian nations who don't have a hope of winning in international competitions due to the height distributions of their nationals?) not sure what JJ hoped to achieve in posting that image in the context of sex classes in sport, when there is a clear binomial distribution of heights. Confused

LostToucan · 03/05/2021 10:29

I know next to nothing about golf, but I think there is a handicap system that would allow men and women to play against each other anyway.

There is, but it gets complicated - just looked it up and now I’m annoyed all over again because mixed sex competitions are described as “mixed gender”.

www.congu.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/MIXED-GOLF-SSS-SI.pdf

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