BBC article on Elliot Page

Recall some of the detransitioners at the Manchester event a couple of years ago mentioning how before they came out as trans, they had been suffering from anorexia - and that the feelings towards the body were the same in both instances.

I've seen some recent images of Elliot Page and he is looking worryingly thin.

I just am surprised that Page felt unable to make autonomous decisions to wear whatever and have short hair.

This is the tragedy.

Very sad that this person has been very badly let down by those around them. They seem very unstable and delicate and I don’t think this will end well.

"Ultimately, of course, it's every experience you've had since you were a toddler, people saying, 'The way you're sitting is not ladylike, you're walking like a boy. The music you're listening to as a teenager,' obviously, the way you dress. Every single aspect of who you are constantly being looked at and put in a box in a very binary system," he added. "That's what it leads to."

I feel exactly the same. But I don’t agree that it leads to you believing you are the opposite sex. It has lead to me thinking about how I behave and how I treat boys and girls.

@DIshedUp
In terms of having a panic attack in the dress would most men have a panic attack if they had to wear a dress? Would they actually feel distressed at presenting as female or just a bit self conscious and silly?

Surely that's not an equal comparison, though?
For a more equal comparison when you're trans it would be the opposite - in other words a man dressing up in a suit and a tie and having a panic attack.
Stands to reason that if a trans man can have panic attacks from wearing dresses, the equivalent of a trans woman having one would be from wearing say a suit and tie or whatever.

What I don't understand about the comments regarding dresses and premiers/after parties is that there are plenty of examples of women who don't conform to the expected dress/heels business. Diane Keaton being an obvious one, Tilda Swindon another. And Page had also worn trouser suits to these things for a good while.

I just am surprised that Page felt unable to make autonomous decisions to wear whatever and have short hair.

As usual hyperbolic lying to victimize themselves in order to gain sympathy and make demands appear as 'rights'.

Watching EP I can’t help think this is all going to end badly.
I don’t expect them to be leaping around with joy, but I also don’t expect them to come across so very damaged and unwell looking.

My all-time favourite Magdalen Berns video, saying the same thing:

Exactly. Surely the answer to ridiculous man/woman sexist stereotypes is not to simply just move over into the 'opposite sex' category, because then you are just reinforcing those stereotypes?

Totally agree about the pressure to put your pronouns in your bio/email etc, particularly among young people. For an ideology that is apparently about smashing up labels and boxes, there is an awful lot of putting labels on people and putting them in particular boxes.

And just the general pressure to 'label' oneself as 'she' or 'he' or whatever and having to live your life according to that.

There are two sexes, everything else is just your personality.

Nostalgic for a time when being an androgynous lesbian was absolutely fine and not indicative of needing a new gender identity

Oh hell, the response to this is radical feminism, not surgery!

My all-time favourite Magdalen Berns video, saying the same thing:

@takingmytimeonmyride

People used to comment a lot online about then-Ellen's forehead so maybe that's fed into this desire to change too (seriously, google or twitter search it - so many negative comments about it!).

[quote R0wantrees]Surely a panic attack at wearing a dress indicates a much deeper dislike of your body and self esteem issues. Like body dysmorphia

The particular style of dress that female actors are expected to wear are very revealing and women come under enormous scrutiny.

(extract)
"There was so much press and so many premieres all around the world and I was wearing dresses and heels to pretty much every single event," Page said of the press tour, per Insider.

After his manager offered him three dresses to wear to a screening of the film one evening, Page told Winfrey, 67, "I lost it, it was like a cinematic moment. That night, after the premiere at the after-party, I collapsed. That's something that's happened frequently in my life, usually corresponding with a panic attack."

"Ultimately, of course, it's every experience you've had since you were a toddler, people saying, 'The way you're sitting is not ladylike, you're walking like a boy. The music you're listening to as a teenager,' obviously, the way you dress. Every single aspect of who you are constantly being looked at and put in a box in a very binary system," he added. "That's what it leads to."
people.com/movies/elliot-page-collapsed-at-a-premiere-over-gender-pressures/[/quote]
This sounds much like me. I was told off plenty of times in my youth for not being ladylike. which pleased me greatly because I didn't want to be a lady. I wanted to be a boy and not be told off for such bullshit things as how I sit - I sit with my legs open, manspread, didn't wear dresses or skirts, wasn't a delicate little flower, hated my female body.

But I know none of that takes away the fact that I am female and nothing I could do could ever change that.

E Page could do with finding a decent barber though. That haircut was shit when I had it as a teenager in the early 90s. (When I was also trying hard not to be female)

Oh hell, the response to this is radical feminism, not surgery!

This ^^

When I started menopause one of the worst side effects was the impact on my mental health. Anxiety, panic attacks and low level depression lasted for a long time, it was awful. Its a common but not well known fact that estrogen plays a fundamental role in mental health for women, anything that disrupts that is going to have a profound effect.

Are girls and young women being told this before they start taking cross sex hormones?

The idea put forward that Page’s mental health is purely under the influence of those being mean to transgender people, and intrinsic factors and medications aren’t a consideration in their influence, is such a childish immature assessment of a person making a public interview demonstrating distress, that I would be embarrassed if I had made such a post.

[quote R0wantrees]Surely a panic attack at wearing a dress indicates a much deeper dislike of your body and self esteem issues. Like body dysmorphia

The particular style of dress that female actors are expected to wear are very revealing and women come under enormous scrutiny.

(extract)
"There was so much press and so many premieres all around the world and I was wearing dresses and heels to pretty much every single event," Page said of the press tour, per Insider.

After his manager offered him three dresses to wear to a screening of the film one evening, Page told Winfrey, 67, "I lost it, it was like a cinematic moment. That night, after the premiere at the after-party, I collapsed. That's something that's happened frequently in my life, usually corresponding with a panic attack."

"Ultimately, of course, it's every experience you've had since you were a toddler, people saying, 'The way you're sitting is not ladylike, you're walking like a boy. The music you're listening to as a teenager,' obviously, the way you dress. Every single aspect of who you are constantly being looked at and put in a box in a very binary system," he added. "That's what it leads to."
people.com/movies/elliot-page-collapsed-at-a-premiere-over-gender-pressures/[/quote]
Oh hell, the response to this is radical feminism, not surgery!

Surely a panic attack at wearing a dress indicates a much deeper dislike of your body and self esteem issues. Like body dysmorphia

The particular style of dress that female actors are expected to wear are very revealing and women come under enormous scrutiny.

(extract)
"There was so much press and so many premieres all around the world and I was wearing dresses and heels to pretty much every single event," Page said of the press tour, per Insider.

After his manager offered him three dresses to wear to a screening of the film one evening, Page told Winfrey, 67, "I lost it, it was like a cinematic moment. That night, after the premiere at the after-party, I collapsed. That's something that's happened frequently in my life, usually corresponding with a panic attack."

"Ultimately, of course, it's every experience you've had since you were a toddler, people saying, 'The way you're sitting is not ladylike, you're walking like a boy. The music you're listening to as a teenager,' obviously, the way you dress. Every single aspect of who you are constantly being looked at and put in a box in a very binary system," he added. "That's what it leads to."
people.com/movies/elliot-page-collapsed-at-a-premiere-over-gender-pressures/

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XOnP2K-4mMQ

Really feel for this person.
Totally agree that child actors must be hugely affected by all the unwanted attention.
So sad.

Elliot doesn't seem very happy to me 😢

Requiring external validation from others is not a good way to build self esteem.

65% of people who have cosmetic surgery go on to regret it.

My friend recently died of stage 4 cancer. The first time she got it she had both breasts removed and beat it, but sadly the cancer came back. It ate away at her, but she never stopped to think poor me and was making jokes and telling her story to raise awareness till the end (she was very young and the cancer was missed initially because of this, despite her going to the doctors' three times and being dismissed.

That was brave. The surgery was necessary, but it took a physical and psychological toll on her.

This is not brave.

Chopping off healthy parts is neither brave, not does it deal with the extreme mental health issues that make individuals have such extreme reactions to everyday life.

And making it seem like just a little operation to make you happier diminishes the struggles and bravery of the women who have no choice to do it.

I know my friend, who was very straight-talking, would be very blunt if she'd ever come face to face with anyone presenting it as a lifestyle choice of no consequence.

I actually think it's disgusting that surgeons and mental health services allow and encourage this.

First do no harm... Etc.

@MNHQ could you please let me know why my comment was deleted? I can’t see how it was at all controversial or offensive, or how it violated talk guidelines.