BBC article on Elliot Page

Can you say more about the right to be who they are? Thanks

As in, that they're trans.
Which you'll only acknowledge as an answer if you're not like pp who doesn't believe in being trans
(this bit for clarity) What many people do not believe is that there is a naturally occurring condition called 'being trans'.

Why should anyone have to convince or justify themselves to others for the right to be who they are though?

The whole thing is reliant on other people though. No one would be any the wiser without an announcement and an expectation that everyone forgets everything else before that point.

You can't involve other people then simultaneously say its nothing to do with anyone else

Do you think they can just try and change their way of thinking and eventually snap out of it or something

They should stay with it for as long as they feel it - if it genuinely frees them; but personally don't think that surgery or hormones is a good way to go. If one is truly distraught in one's own body then counselling/therapy and/or trying to come to terms with it is the best option. Because one has to realise that one can never really change one's sex....and that sex matters in the world for all sorts of reasons.

If one cannot come to terms with one's body, then surgery is a last resort, not a first one. But having surgery doesn't change the reality of sex, either. There are transexuals who acknowledge this, and who don't demand the world conform or have to validate them at every turn.

Elliot's panic about having to wear dresses being proof they are trans does not convince me

Why should anyone have to convince or justify themselves to others for the right to be who they are though?

I've submitted a complaint to the BBC about the "trans kids will commit suicide if they can't play sport" content. It breaches guidelines on reporting about suicide, can promote contagion and is unproven.

Elliot's panic about having to wear dresses being proof they are trans does not convince me.

To me Elliot looked, very sad, very fragile and very thin.

I meant not existing in a being trans way, which is clear from some of these comments.Not in a hello, nobody's there you don't exist way

Since when have we expected the world to validate our every feeling about ourselves; or to expect that everyone reflect back to one us our own perception of ourselves. It is so common as to be normal that people see or experience each other in many different ways .

For example i may perceive myself to be generous to a fault or very friendly, but some people might actually perceive me or experience me as being tight-fisted or a bit hostile or prickly. We cannot control people's perceptions of us; and if our mental health depends on the need to control them, we are going to be very fragile indeed.

Sex is a material reality of life on earth, no matter how we feel or perceive ourselves. People and animals recognise someone's sex most of the time. The clues range from the very obvious to the subtle.
You cannot control this perception or recognition.

Avoiding the question. I think you'll find that's your speciality.

I think the 'wrong body' business is no longer part of the official party line, Quagaars.

In any case, Page is still in exactly the same body - albeit with some surgical modification.

Well, that's an original way of avoiding the question, throwing out the memes

Exist..

Nobody is denying that anyone exists. Don't be daft!

I meant not existing in a being trans way, which is clear from some of these comments.
Not in a hello, nobody's there you don't exist way!

That is not to say that people do not struggle or suffer with themselves, and try to resolve that suffering through adopting a trans identity. It is a way of framing one's experiences. A mental construction
So I was asking what should they do then?
Do you think they can just try and change their way of thinking and eventually snap out of it or something?
Bend to what you think instead they should be?

Hide away instead and hope it just all goes away

No! You can dress or present in any way you like in most liberal societies; but what you cannot do is change the nature or reality of biology or its consequences.

The whole need to public come out and identify as something is very much a contemporary phenomenon - linked to the social media age....where presentations and public announcements are the way of communicating.

Privately, we can be who we like. But our feelings about ourselves do not change the world at large.

So if people don't believe that you exist, what should they do then

Nobody is denying that anyone exists. Don't be daft! What many people do not believe is that there is a naturally occurring condition called 'being trans'. That is not to say that people do not struggle or suffer with themselves, and try to resolve that suffering through adopting a trans identity. It is a way of framing one's experiences. A mental construction.

Sex, however, is real and measurable - and does not depend on anyone telling you about it.

How do you explain the fact that trans people exist then

See my post above......

Transexuals would seek to transition because of extreme dysphoria, and it was understood that this was an psychological issue. The new narrative of an innate gender identity which is often in conflict with one's sex is relatively new. the idea that people are literally born in the wrong body.

Then why do transmen all (so it seems) cut their hair, quaagars? Why don't they just have it long?

Not everyone believes in the concept.

So if people don't believe that you exist, what should they do then?
Just not be trans, not come out?
Hide away instead and hope it just all goes away?

@forfucksakenett

'No it's not a performance as such. It's a place where you present yourself. You're not in character.'

Not really - you are representing the movie you and a whole army of other people have been involved in making, your studio, the film industry, even the designers who have provided the outfit. Many actors now post on instagram showing the team involved in prepping them for the red carpet, and thank all involved. It's not just about them.

These days, too, actors have a direct link to the public - their social media - where we can see their unmediated 'authentic self', should they wish to show it, and many, love it or hate it, are followed around by paparazzi snapping them going to the shops and other mundane activities so we are familiar with what they look like and how they choose to present themselves in their everyday life.

Page’s hair is still longer than mine. And longer than that of plenty of other women I know.

Not sure what hair length has to do with anything, since when does that have anything to do with whether you're trans or not
Unless you mean would look "more like a man" (whatever that means) if he cut his hair?
'Cos if so pretty sure that men can have long hair and look good with it too.

Kind of like denying that they're trans

Not everyone believes in the concept. Though they may get it that some people do. For many people/most people the concept of 'trans' is simply a way of framing someone's discomfort with themselves; providing a narrative for that discomfort. A narrative, however, which can actually lead to surgery and hormones......which is not an inconsequential matter.

Page’s hair is still longer than mine. And longer than that of plenty of other women I know.

Even Mermaids have backed down on the ‘born in the wrong body’ thing now haven’t they?