BBC article on Elliot Page

When Angelina Jolie had her surgeries because of the BRCA gene people criticized her for overreacting when she didn't yet have cancer. Yet, Elliot Page does it for his mental health and that is apparently brave and amazing.

I don't know, it just feels different to when, say Caitlyn Jenner came out, and was immediately winning 'Women of the Year' awards etc. And the way that some women are so keen to welcome transwomen 'into the sisterhood', you just don't really see it the other way around.

I’ve just reported my own post, because I think a lot of us would appreciate an answer on this one.

Let’s hope that answer is provided as quickly then. I was deleted and an email sent explaining within minutes as to why the ‘m’ word was not allowed. Frightening.

I watched the clip of the interview at the top of the article, did nobody else feel like there was a lot of acting going on? It didn't feel genuine to me.

Page has every right to be happy.

But a gay woman becoming a straight man is a form of homophobia and shouldn't be celebrated. Page is responsible for pushing this idea and should be held to account.

It's like old fashioned conversion therapy. But they only want to ban it if it affects trans people.

I read them talking about feeling uncomfortable in a dress. That's fair, but it doesn't anything.

Page is obviously comfortable in a baseball cap - does that mean they think a man who doesn't feel comfortable in a cap should transition?

I’ve just reported my own post, because I think a lot of us would appreciate an answer on this one.

I don't think many people would watch that interview or other recent appearances by Page, and not think that they look tired, thin and unhappy.

I seem to have been deleted for referring obliquely to the thing we are not allowed to talk about.
Even though it is a recognised psychiatric diagnosis.
See DSM-5 302.3

lets

I'd say the opposite actually. Ep as a woman was literally erased from existence within 24 hours. The Internet seemed to be fairly active with people who ordinarily wouldn't have given them a second thought but who saw and took advantage of the situation and jumped right on on there announcing their support. Of course it wasn't support for EP more a " yay look at me aren't I wonderful face book/twitter followers I'm.the best ally and the most woke.person here.

None of it was about EP though it was all.about everyone else's need for attention and approval. The person in the middle.of it all.was almost irrelevant.

Top surgery involves the removal of the breast tissue to create a masculine chest.

DerryWitch its @NiceGerbil 's post and I agree, its superb.

I don't know if it's just me, but the reaction to this interview, and Elliot Page's coming out in general seems to be a bit more muted than normal? There just doesn't seem to be the same sort of sharing and 'celebrating' over this that one might think there would be of a fairly prominent Hollywood star coming out as trans.

Really? I've seen loads of articles shared, and praise for "coming out" and discussions all over social media and in MSM (mainstream media) articles.

Or going by the rest of your comment, is this just a way and narrative to paint all women as nobody gives a shit about them and little vulnerable victims?
We're not!
We are all different people, we are not all the same.
I really hate this victim narrative, not just your comment but all the commenting on his appearance, "frail", "thin" "vulnerable" etc.
Has he said he's a victim, or vulnerable?

I was wondering about why he is still playing a part in the umbrella academy that was a female part. Maybe importantly a female part too given that it was the most powerful (probably) of the characters and historically women's power has been denied. Should it not have bee reserved for a female therefore? Or is this move suggesting that trans men are female/ not really men? Seems like an ideological mess and some attention to protecting the 50% (+) of subjugated females within this may be helpful.

@forfucksakenett 'No matter how you look at it, you appear on the red carpet as yourself. You may well represent your workplace and you may well be dressed up but that doesn't detract from the fact that you are you.'

If that's your way of thinking about it, one could say the same of all the roles Elliot has performed too, while they were performing them.

Why have I been deleted? I answered a question I had been asked. Dysphoria is a thing !

It’s frightening that I’ve been deleted. I think we all need to be very concerned at the way things are headed.

[quote R0wantrees]from current thread discussing Guardian coverage of the interview
NiceGerbil made important points which, in my opinion need wider consideration,

"The thing that has leapt out at me for ages around this, and continues to do so. In brief.. (I'll try!)

An artful lot of things with this seem to be about breasts.
Binders/ mastectomies
For males, the surgery that seems to be the main one is implants. For those on hormones like that person in the ? Telegraph, their chest growing is inordinately exciting.

What I know is that
Growth of breasts whatever age you are is the sudden point at which men start looking at you differently. Society starts treating you differently. It's when the leering starts and the ideas like you need to cover up (unspoken, because your own growing body puts you at risk). For right or wrong, that's the message. And the breasts are the most obvious thing.
Men in our society utterly fetishise breasts. That what would you do if you were opposite sex for the day, the first thing lots of men would do is play with their tits.
Breasts are to feed babies but that's really gross to much of society because they're for show for men, not for feeding.
Loads of girls have forever tried to hide their chest shape to stop the way it means they are treated.
Breast ironing is a horrendous thing that is done with the aim of holding off the behaviour of men towards girls once their bodies start developing.

So we have.
Girls especially when breasts start growing and through maybe secondary school age actively wishing they would go away.
From a practical pov even if larger they are a PITA. if you are into sport gymnastics etc they get in the way.
In general one way or another many girls and women are not keen. Ambivalent. Would be comfier in many ways without them.
Meanwhile males who are non binary/trans this seems to be a common number 1 wishlist item.

That puts it in a different context. Where do you want to be in the sex class order? Looker or lookee? Able to walk down the high street with no attention or with eyes subtly or not so subtly up and down up and down? That sort of thing.

And of course implants can be removed. A double mastectomy is a much larger operation removing healthy tissue permanently.

Finally. Why is it seen as not a big deal for girls/ women? Is it because society is used to girls and women trying to alter their bodies to fit in with the male gaze? And girls and women understanding that as they live in society too? Restrictive clothes, uncomfortable shoes. In the past foot binding tight corsetry. Having pubic hair ripped out and the idea of an appt at beautician is 'pampering'. (Yes I know some men do it too).

If you don't want the attention discomfort unpleasant things to do with breasts that happen because, men will be men. Then have them cut off.

Yes obviously some people have sex dysphoria.

This focus on the breasts for both male and female without any analysis or attempt to understand if there's something going on. It's obvious to me.

I suppose it's easier not to think about it too much?"

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4232660-Guardian-hits-new-low?pg=3[/quote]
Superb post, @R0wantrees.

*fawned

I don't know if it's just me, but the reaction to this interview, and Elliot Page's coming out in general seems to be a bit more muted than normal? There just doesn't seem to be the same sort of sharing and 'celebrating' over this that one might think there would be of a fairly prominent Hollywood star coming out as trans.

The reasons for this could be two fold
1)Elliot is female and females don't matter as much so people give less of a fuck.
2) People are finally realising that a 34 year old female cutting off their perfectly healthy breasts because they have such intense hatred for their body is not something to be celebrated and dawned over.

Having read some interviews with Page it does seem they’ve experienced gender dysphoria for a long time. I have no issue with people with gender dysphoria transitioning and having treatment if that’s what they want to do. I do find the replacement of their previous name everywhere with their new one a bit jarring, especially things made before the transition, as with The Umbrella Academy.

[quote IvyTwines2]@forfucksakenett

'No it's not a performance as such. It's a place where you present yourself. You're not in character.'

Not really - you are representing the movie you and a whole army of other people have been involved in making, your studio, the film industry, even the designers who have provided the outfit. Many actors now post on instagram showing the team involved in prepping them for the red carpet, and thank all involved. It's not just about them.

These days, too, actors have a direct link to the public - their social media - where we can see their unmediated 'authentic self', should they wish to show it, and many, love it or hate it, are followed around by paparazzi snapping them going to the shops and other mundane activities so we are familiar with what they look like and how they choose to present themselves in their everyday life.[/quote]
No matter how you look at it, you appear on the red carpet as yourself. You may well represent your workplace and you may well be dressed up but that doesn't detract from the fact that you are you.

If I work in the bank then I'm not the bank ffs.