Pronouns in email signatures - advice and arguments please

how is an LGBTQ+ symbol a "red flag" for the L? They are included...

Oh, they’ve kept the letter. But I’m talking about lesbians as in biological women who are exclusively attracted to our own sex and have no interest in anyone with XY chromosomes, regardless of gender identity.

Stonewall and the LGBTQQIAP++ community with their pronouns, rainbows etc are all about gender identity nowadays. They no longer even acknowledge the existence of same-sex orientation because after achieving gay marriage, there was no money or glory in campaigning for our rights any more.

I remember getting an email to me and a few other managers about our team’s work starting ‘gents …’
I responded with ‘ladies …’

It amused me, and they didn’t do it again ☺️

I do find it sad how some people will be doing it entirely innocently without much thought and will be unaware of the legions of people who go, we, no as a result. Plus the people who are pretty much compelled to use them, like a lot of NHS Trusts.

I'm finding it more and more common with recruiters on LinkedIn now - I just find it ludicrous, I don't want to know anything about the personal life of some random person on LinkedIn that's trying to place me in a role. I actively avoid them.

I have been using my pronouns in my email signature for a couple of years. Before I put mine, I had found them (or the use of Mr or Mrs in the signature, especially of folk who have gender neutral names) really useful. By putting mine, I make the Sams and Kims stand out less and that's a good thing.

Oh come now, Bordois and Nodal, you know your feelings don’t matter - you are merely women. Not at all worthy of consideration, as long as the shiny special people are all happy. You should be grateful if you haven’t been told to die in a grease fire recently. Pull yourselves together....

I couldn't tell you if anyone in my organisation has pronouns in their signature as I don't read people's signatures. I know who the email is from based on the from field, if they are not known to me they tell me who they are in the body of the email, so I have no need to read the signature. There are also quite a few people who don't have a signature at all. Adding pronouns to signatures would be a pointless exercise at my workplace.

yes, it's a wonder I'm still alive, the number of emails I've received over the years addresse to "Gents"

This is exactly what is happening, which is actually quite sad. I see someone with pronouns in their signature as someone to be avoided so I’m not reported to HR for some unknown infraction as I don’t follow whatever is the current ideology. I’m sure some of them are just blindly trying to ‘be kind’ but I’m not risking my career.
I go out of my way to support my female colleagues, I hire good women and offer mentor support - in a very male dominated profession I provide practical support and make sure I’m not pulling the ladder up behind me.
I just do it in a very matter of fact ‘this is normal’ way with out fanfare or flags.

To be fair, I’m sure a lot of pronoun-users / rainbow/wearers have no idea that many LGB people - lesbians in particular - will instantly see red flags & put their guard up. But that’s still the effect.

So perhaps it could work as a filter, to screen out people we can’t be bothered with?! Good call Babdoc

It's been helpful when talking to and meeting new people. It's made it easier for young people we speak to feel more comfortable and especially anyone who is transgender

But surely when you meet and speak to a new person, you use the second person pronoun 'you', not third person pronouns like 'he' or 'she'?

Transgender people can just use they/them or any pronouns they wish if they don't want to be 'out'.

Surely using 'they' does out you though, probably as trans or non-binary. People who identify as the sex there were born as tend to be referred to as he or she, not they. It is unacceptable to compel people to state their pronouns. Saying "well they can just choose 'they' " doesn't alter that.

On this I would not fall on my sword. I would say in meeting that my personal preference doesn’t matter, what matters is the preference of the employees. Then I’d suggest we add it as a survey question in the next morale and welfare survey.

Question “Would you like to be encouraged to include your preferred pronouns on your work email signatures? Yes or No?”

That is assuming your organisation does regularly survey its employees to find out what they think and what changes they’d like or not like?

This isn’t something that should be mandated top down. It should only be implemented if the majority of employees think it would make the workplace better for them.

Thankfully I am retired and don’t have to deal with this woke, virtue signalling crap on a daily basis.
. But anyone sending me an email with their pronouns attached would immediately lose my respect. I would consider them a self obsessed, foolish, gender ideologist, and not someone with whom I would wish to engage in a correspondence.
So perhaps it could work as a filter, to screen out people we can’t be bothered with?!

@Eyewhisker I receive emails with rainbows and official looking statements about being an equal opportunity employer. I’d have to check the wording but I think it mentions race and disability, nothing about sex, sexual orientation nor gender. I say official looking, because I work for the same employer and we set our own email signatures and have never been sent any statement to include as standard, either from my department or the higher up management. I work for the NHS so the rainbows could be that rather than LGBTQ etc
No pronouns but I honestly probably wouldn’t notice.

Haven't RTFT but enough and hope my comments aren't too much of a duplicate but

We worked to get rid of Mrs Miss by using Ms and then for the good of all, first & surnames became common which really was a positive step. How does using pronouns progress the rights of women?

Who uses pronouns - is it mostly women and if that's the case has anyone asked men why they don't (because they think it's daft).

It is compelled speech and a company cannot compel an employee to use pronouns without risking a legal challenge because it is not law. Compelled speech is unacceptable in a democracy. There are court cases which will clear this up as it may impinge on free speech.

What if the organisation has lots of contact with companies that do not used pronouns and find the expectation of pronoun use to be off putting? Does a company put pronouns before profits?

Pronouns definitely has the whiff of bored students about it

Do you understand what sexism actually means, entails, and the consequences thereof? The consequences of sexism are real, have impact and can actually ruin women's lives

Clearly they know nothing and care less.

The lack and understanding about a group they claim to identify with is staggering.

I’d suggest a different tack and out-woke them

Totally agree with wanting an inclusive environment for trans colleagues and maybe have a ‘transitioning at work’ policy. Let’s focus on concrete actions to help colleagues. This is a better way for showing support for trans colleagues than pronouns.

Pronouns looks like White, middle-class virtue signalling. Why do email signatures not include the BLM symbol or the pride rainbow or support for disability? It seems like we are supporting one mainly white middle class group above others and forgetting about intersectionality.

And frankly having personal information in a work email looks unprofessional

Pronouns are extremely useful, as highlighted upthread, for signalling who is in the in group and who is in the out group.

The ingroup are allies, they can be relied on, they are fully aligned with the progressive cause.

The out group can be identified as a pernicious influence which can then be “dealt with” and “don’t deserve” positions of influence.

I simply can’t imagine why anyone would find any of this worrying at all! Just pop them in your signature like a good ally, and then we won’t have to have the difficult conversation about what you’re thinking. Thanks, as always, for the clarity and sunlight

From a business point of view - receiving emails from a company with pronouns attached gives a strong signal to recipients.

I would suggest it worth considering how that will impact on the branding and culture and perception of the company.

Maybe even a spot of market research is in order, be interesting to see that.

There are 300 people in my company I’m in the UK and I don’t know , around 10,000 worldwide. What are you supposed to do with all this pronoun information.
Pronouns are supposed to make English easier. So - ‘Elizabeth is booking the meeting. She will arrange it for tomorrow. She’s going to check her calendar.’ Rather than repeat Elizabeth which would be clunky.

Let’s say I’m writing this email to a group of other people - I have to try and locate Elizabeth’s personal pronoun list - to check I’m using the right one’s to not offend.
I send tonnes of emails a day- I don’t have time to check pronouns.
Then say Elizabeth has ‘he/him’ pronouns.
Someone else tells Elizabeth that I have inadvertently used ‘she’ so Elizabeth complains to HR. Or - maybe just asks me nicely to say ‘he’ instead of involving HR, and so I apologise and use ‘he’ because I’m trying to be nice. But the next time , I use ‘she’ again because, well I’m taking about a woman and I’m English and for over fifty years of my life that’s the language norm!
It could become a nightmare with people taking offence all over the place on behalf of other people.
I’m so glad my company is not woke, and I’m so glad that my boss is sane.
Not many years left until I retire thank goodness!

Not giving a shit what sexism comes with letting others know you are a woman. If that isn't a feminist then I don't know what is.

This is perhaps one of the most entitled things I've heard said recently.

'Not giving a shit' is totally grand, if you're not providing for a family, paying rent, you are protected enough to have a safety net, to not care if you get sacked, to not be that fussed about career progression, to not care about sexual harassment.

Do you understand what sexism actually means, entails, and the consequences thereof? The consequences of sexism are real, have impact and can actually ruin women's lives.

But I hear you don't care about that.

I’m joking. Obviously. But why are pronouns more important than other parts of our identity? How far should personal disclosure in a work setting go?

If misgendering someone, or using pronouns not to misgender someone is important, should we also be putting our disabilities or mental health conditions in our email signatures? We use language like “that’s crazy” or “he’s going to go mental” or “that’s a bonkers idea” in conversations which could negatively impact those with MH conditions if you weren’t aware of them.

I’d argue we need to put our sexuality, our level of ability/disability and any MH conditions in our email signatures too - just for full disclosure. There might be more too, maybe ethnicity...