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Original poster

Guardian hits new low

133 replies

justawoman · 30/04/2021 18:14

Glorifying a double mastectomy and claiming kids will kill themselves if they can’t get one too. My mother and other women I know have had mastectomies and I know how disfiguring they can be and how much nerve pain, lymphoma etc can happen afterwards. Now it’s presented, in the headline, as a ‘lifesaving’ choice, and no, they’re not talking about cancer:

www.theguardian.com/film/2021/apr/30/elliot-page-happiness-top-surgery-oprah-winfrey-interview

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Letsgetreadytocrumble · 01/05/2021 21:44

@Quaagars

I genuinely do hope that Elliot is happy and finds peace within himself

He says he has though by transitioning.
Why disbelieve?
If you genuinely do hope that he is happy, surely you'd be pleased he's saying he's happy now, and at peace instead of insinuating he can't possibly be just because you think he doesn't look it.

Because from the bits of the interview I have seen, they didn't come across as someone who is happy and secure in themselves now. I am allowed to form that sort of perception about someone from what I have seen, aren't I? It's what humans tend to do in a social setting.

As someone else said, Elliot has been through a lot and it could be that they are still processing and dealing with all of that which is why they came across that way. Which is why I said that I hope that Elliot is happy can find peace.

Quaagars · 01/05/2021 21:21

I genuinely do hope that Elliot is happy and finds peace within himself

He says he has though by transitioning.
Why disbelieve?
If you genuinely do hope that he is happy, surely you'd be pleased he's saying he's happy now, and at peace instead of insinuating he can't possibly be just because you think he doesn't look it.

CardinalLolzy · 01/05/2021 21:12

Shizuku - you might be able to answer my question above. Is it ok to refer to EP as 'coming out as gay' for being attracted to women? He has always been male.

Letsgetreadytocrumble · 01/05/2021 21:11

There are lots of words that I could use to describe Elliot in that Oprah interview - 'happy' would be quite far down the list for me I think.

I genuinely do hope that Elliot is happy and finds peace within himself.

Shizuku · 01/05/2021 21:00

I know, right? They just can't bear the fact that trans people exist, neveremind that any of us might actually happy we transitioned.

Quaagars · 01/05/2021 20:41

@Shizuku

Guardian reporting on a happy transitioner is a new low, apparently.
It's the trying to paint as a victim, vulnerable, can't know what he's doing, picking at appearance to 'prove"is frail that gets me. Can't possibly be happy, must have been forced into it or something Confused
Shizuku · 01/05/2021 20:31

Guardian reporting on a happy transitioner is a new low, apparently.

JustCleaningtheBBQ · 01/05/2021 20:16

I know. Anyone thinking that going down the path of having a double mastectomy as a way of feeling better needs to read this. They may make the decision to go ahead anyway, but at least they will be informed of what does often happen when you have this brutal surgery. No one wants to listen to their voices though.

HecatesCatsInFancyHats · 01/05/2021 19:19

@DaVinyl

Not sure tweet pasted in, so here's the link.

pbs.twimg.com/media/E0S6QHPXMAA5kIZ?format=jpg&name=large

That's heartbreaking
DaVinyl · 01/05/2021 19:18

Not sure tweet pasted in, so here's the link.

pbs.twimg.com/media/E0S6QHPXMAA5kIZ?format=jpg&name=large

DaVinyl · 01/05/2021 19:16

Just saw this on Twitter, so sad



CardinalLolzy · 01/05/2021 18:56

She's been promoting Sex Matters too

twitter.com/SusannaRustin/status/1387078014073196545

Floisme · 01/05/2021 18:10

@NecessaryScene1

Susanna Rustin (who I had to check is still a Guardian leader writer) also on-side here:

twitter.com/SusannaRustin/status/1388389061988130819

twitter.com/SusannaRustin/status/1388396831118438401

Flowers

US vs UK relationship tensions... Blush

Given how it ended for Suzanne Moore at The Guardian I think that's brave of Susanna Rustin. Star
CardinalLolzy · 01/05/2021 16:45

I'm being genuine here - is it not wrong/unkind to keep referring to him as gay? Was he ever gay if he's always been male? I guess he did identify as gay at one point but that was relative to his previous name/identity/gender?

HecatesCatsInFancyHats · 01/05/2021 16:45

@Quaagars

So Page's poor ex wife was just an experiment

Not really, if he didn't know himself fully what it was.

Maybe it's a response to trauma
ListeningQuietly · 01/05/2021 16:36

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Quaagars · 01/05/2021 16:35

fully what it was being trans for clarity

Quaagars · 01/05/2021 16:34

So Page's poor ex wife was just an experiment

Not really, if he didn't know himself fully what it was.

Quaagars · 01/05/2021 16:31

And why, if Transwomen do not feel the need to have surgery of any kind Transmen feel obliged to get their breasts cut off?

What, all of them?
I'm sure some trans women do have surgery, just like some trans men do.

toffeebutterpopcorn · 01/05/2021 16:28

True. I have heard people talked about lady(you know what) but never man-breasts (in that way anyway). It’s as if it is two very different scenarios.

ListeningQuietly · 01/05/2021 16:26

So Page's poor ex wife was just an experiment.

And why, if Transwomen do not feel the need to have surgery of any kind
Transmen feel obliged to get their breasts cut off?

Do transwomen not feel 'discomfort' with their penis and testicles
and the desire to have them removed?

or is that not part of the process for men ?

Quaagars · 01/05/2021 16:21

Page was outed as a Lesbian in 2015
Married a woman in 2018
Separated from her / his wife in 2020 and divorced in 2020
came out as Trans in December 2020
and has already had a double mastectomy by April 2021

that seems a pretty hasty turnaround to me

The article says though

Coming out as gay in 2014 “did relieve some stuff for me, I was extremely closeted all through my 20s … but the discomfort with my body didn’t go away,” he said, explaining that sexual orientation and gender identity are “completely different things”.

So sounds like it was always there. Before coming out as gay, even. Even if maybe didn't recognise it as being trans as such to begin with.
So doesn't seem as hasty if you look at it like that

ListeningQuietly · 01/05/2021 15:54

Page was outed as a Lesbian in 2015
Married a woman in 2018
Separated from her / his wife in 2020 and divorced in 2020
came out as Trans in December 2020
and has already had a double mastectomy by April 2021

that seems a pretty hasty turnaround to me

SmokedDuck · 01/05/2021 15:47

It's not that many years since EP was doing public events around lesbian identity, so I tend to think this is somewhat recent. But then I am starting to find that things I thought happened five years ago actually happened 25 years ago.

Quaagars · 01/05/2021 15:42

I am sure that Elliot is happy as a man but very concerned that he has rushed into irreversible surgery so quickly

Isn't he in his thirties?
If you read the article as well, it says he has felt the disconnect for years (for want of a better expression) and the anguish of dressing up in feminine clothes such as on the red carpet.
Not sure how that's "rushing into it so quickly" if it's been years has known but not just been "out" or come to terms with it (it being the fact is trans for clarity)