Maya Forstater is entitled to her views, but anti-transgender beliefs don’t belong in the workplace

[quote R0wantrees]Twitter comment by Robin Moira White (one of the authors of the opinion piece in OP)

twitter.com/moira_robin/status/1388257159163613184[/quote]
This is a very odd comment for a barrister who works on employment discrimination cases (and therefore must advise about Equality Law) to make. It feels like there is a high level of personal investment here.

To be free not a tree 🌳

(I'd also say it would be reasonable to say that you were not in FACT a tree if you identified as one of these too)

🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️

Does Robin think that the EHRC exists solely to advocate for trans people?
What would be equal about that?

It's not anti-transgender:

To expect to be tree to discuss reality & science based fact.

To want to protect the hard won rights of women.

To oppose misogyny in all it's forms.

To differentiate between women & men who want to be like women (as they see this).

Agreeing with scientific FACT is not "a belief" it's just reality.

Go @MForstater 🙌🙌🙌

I thought people like Robin she/her believed that rights weren't a pie. Surely freedom of thought, conscience and religion doesn't take away anyone else's rights?

Kellie-Jay Keen YouTube:
'Maya joins me for a chat'
30/04/21
www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLGfaKjG8PQ

Twitter comment by Robin Moira White (one of the authors of the opinion piece in OP)

twitter.com/moira_robin/status/1388257159163613184

Telegraph By Gabriella Swerling,
29/4/21
''Gender critical' beliefs protected by law, says equalities watchdog
Equality and Human Rights Commission statement comes as landmark case over trans rights concluded this week'
(extract)
The belief that trans women are men is protected by law, the equalities watchdog has confirmed.

The statement from the Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) came as a landmark case over trans rights concluded this week.

In March 2019, Maya Forstater lost her job after being accused of "offensive" tweets questioning government proposals to allow people to self-identify as being of the opposite sex.

Ms Forstater took her case to an employment tribunal in December 2019 on the grounds that her dismissal constituted discrimination against her "gender critical" beliefs. Employment judge James Tayler dismissed her claim, saying she was "absolutist in her view of sex".

During her appeal hearing this week, held via video link before Mr Justice Choudhury, she reiterated her views that biological sex is "real, important, immutable, and not to be conflated with gender identity". (continues)
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/04/29/gender-critical-beliefs-protected-law-says-equalities-watchdog/

The rage directed at Maya is from believers. They don't direct rage at Bunce and Murray for their behaviour.

Of court they don't. However absurd it makes them look. The rage is all at the people who expose the absurdity of gender identity ideology.

It is more believers lacking tolerance of non believers to me, men and women alike don't believe that Phil Bunce is a woman and consider that non binary is a personal issue, not a status requiring legal documents or special words.

The rage directed at Maya is from believers. They don't direct rage at Bunce and Murray for their behaviour.

Double standards at play here.

Is it at all possible that people who apply those double standards recognise there is a sex class that can be oppressed with the expectation of kindness even when it harms that same individual and sex class?

Phil Bunce who Maya tweeted about, reasonably questioning why he was on a top 100 women list was excluded from the list the following year for making derogatory remarks about women. The two trans people featuring in Mayas case are both on the receiving end of sanctions for their inability to be civil to women and yet Maya has always been civil.

Double standards at play here.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3405274-Pips-Bunce-dropped-from-FT-list

In the day it was none of my colleagues business which ones of us
went to Greenham Common
boycotted South African produce
supported Greenpeace

It should be none of an employers business the comments that a person makes
that DO NOT IMPACT on their work

This bring your whole self to work is such a load of crap, as others have said, I go to work to work, do the job required and for which I am rewarded financially and then go home. Agree with toffee Nor do I need to see their complete selves, nor know about their sexual preferences, or their labels or other habits. It’s just not relevant, frankly I'm not bloody interested.

Two way street though isn't it. And if your belief system overrides my lack of consent to mixed spaces, then yes, of course me saying why it's not on is acceptable.

I enjoyed Ben Cooper's closing argument:

'' C doesn't deny people's rights under the GRA. She is happy to recognise them; endorses the principle that T people should not be discriminated against or harassed. But she doesn't accept that they must be treated in every situation the same as biological women.

That's on all fours with the current state of the law. And it's so even if it upsets people

It doesn't need to be on all fours with the law to be protected. It's a protected belief that gay people shouldn't be allowed to get married. It will upset some people, but it's protected.

If it were the test, people on the other side of the argument who say trans people should be allowed to access all single sex spaces would fall foul of it ''

The part that is 'mummy or daddy' is often expected not to come to work.

Ha, you're right, work was never interested in my single parent child care issues. That was like a dirty secret I had to keep to myself.

those who hold views like hers, should be perfectly entitled to hold them – just not to bring them into the workplace and inflict them on their colleagues.

Two way street though isn't it. And if your belief system overrides my lack of consent to mixed spaces, then yes, of course me saying why it's not on is acceptable.

Some employers and colleagues have been distinctly less than sympathetic to enforced WFH causing parents, especially mothers, to inadvertently "bring more of their whole selves to work" than usual. The part that is 'mummy or daddy' is often expected not to come to work.

I don’t want to take my whole self into the office and I doubt if my colleagues would like it either.

Not do I need to see their complete selves, nor know about their sexual preferences, or their labels or other habits. It’s just not relevant.

No I don't care either. I really really don't need to know this fucking stuff.

No workplace needs their workers whole selves.

Would we be forced to show the same enthusiasm for Doreen in Account's new knitting patterns, or admire Ben's in Procurement's latest crop of carrots, as seems to be expected for Dave deciding he likes to be Davina at weekends?
Who could seriously be expected to give a shit about any of it, much less an enforced shit, as it were?
I find it offensive that if I object to knowing more about my colleagues that I feel comfortable with I'm labelled a bigot.
I just don't fucking care.

I work with political campaigners
that does not mean I have to be nice about Tories or Momentum

I work with Christians
that does not mean I have to believe in a random 2000 year old book

I work with trans people
that does not mean I have to pretend that their clothes reflect their biology

Talking about the different sexes of human beings is not a "belief". It's immutable fact.
The fact that some people want to brainwash us into thinking that this most important biological aspect of our species is a "belief" is so disturbing... that it beggars belief. See correct use of the word.

What happened to just bringing your work self to work, getting the job done, and leaving the other crap at home. 🤔

This sort of thing really highlights to me, the hypocrisy and tyranny of the current model of workplace "inclusion and diversity".

You can and should "bring your whole self to work", it goes, as long as your whole self happens to subscribe to a particular set of modern, western, woke beliefs. If it doesn't then STFU or you'll get the sack.