Trans lesbian?

I understand the concern of trans people and their supporters if they've been pressuring lesbian women or gay men to accept dates with them, but I don't think anyone should tell them what they should or should not identify as.

Like I said a new name probably needs to be coined to meet the needs of trans woman attracted to women and trans men attracted to men and trans people of either sex who want to be in what outwardly looks like an heterosexual couple. However no one has the right to tell them how they should identify. No one.

you're putting a huge amount of words into my mouth there, and I'm not really a fan - it's bit gaslighty isn't it?

No but that sounds like you are trying to bulky me into silence. You said above that you don't know of lesbians being told they must dates trans women, because that would be as ridiculous as telling a woman she has to date any man, that's interested just because she is straight.

I pointed out that happened, you said you were shocked and surprised IF that's happens.

Its a huge women's issue. But you seem to not know anything about it.

Several people have said their lesbian teen daughters are facing, being excluded from lbgtq places, because they won't date biological men. Other lesbian posters are telling you, they are aware of this issue. Again, you said it would be ridiculous if that happened. And yet it does. But you aren't aware of it.

You said that lesbian spaces can't remain open unless they allow biological males in, because they can't financially keep it a float. It seems to you a lesbian space is only lesbian bars, which could have tons of reasons for not staying open.

So which bit, did I put words in your mouth?

If you aren't familiar with any of these big issues that impact women, you aren't very well connected with real life.

Really this constant pushing of the idea that males can be lesbians is actually quite hateful and really should not be tolerated on this board. Take your homphobia elsewhere please.

Clarice 99 In my previous post at 17.33 I referred to transwomen who are attracted to transwomen and women. We're in agreement on this.

And agree that those who won't date trans are heterosexual.

How can you, be so well connected and not aware of any of these issues?

A very good question.

To be well connected means to be aware. And in this instance, on this thread, because it doesn't fit the narrative to be 'all inclusive', the awareness is on the backburner, or the connections are not there.

I'm a heterosexual woman, I do not socialise much due to autism, being around people is often too overwhelming. But I'm aware, very aware, despite not being connected and it just doesn't ring true that a connected, aware person wouldn't be in the know.

Well @Trevsadick, you're putting a huge amount of words into my mouth there, and I'm not really a fan - it's bit gaslighty isn't it?

I'm not unfamiliar with any of the theoretical issues or indeed how they manifest on occasion; I'm in disagreement about the extent to which they reflect the everyday experiences of the gay and lesbian etc communities.

I have two trans male friends and they're both in relationships with women. They don't consider themselves lesbians because they don't consider themselves women any longer. This is why I think I struggle with the logic on this thread as it would suggest they should call themselves lesbians. But I appreciate the struggle that some of you and your loved ones have been through which is why you feel as you do.

But they are lesbians though, it’s a shame they don’t want to identify as such but biological females exclusively same sex attracted are lesbians. 🤷‍♀️

I am very well established and connected in the lesbian and gay communities that I am part of, and have been for many years. The political rhetoric that I see being bounced around on forums is not representative of the world I see in person, first hand. To the extent that it makes me question what is going on in forums at times.

But you don't know that women are pressured to date men, because the man wants a date?

Despite this happening to lesbians as well. You don't know that women worry, they are in danger if they turn a man down?

Sorry for the source, but dd just sent me this story as a prime example of what happens when women turn men down. This poor young woman, had to go as far as a retraining order but that didn't help

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9703881/Model-killed-Derbyshire-village-filed-restraining-order-against-stalker-friend-claims.html

And this isn't even the only story, this week where a woman has died, because she says she doesn't want to be with a man.

Despite, the fact that its discussed all the time, you seem to unaware of any issues women face in regards to the male gaze. And no one you have ever known has ever experienced this. If they had you would know it.

You seem to think lesbians don't have their own money, can't sustain their own groups and have to rely on biological females to financially support a safe space.

Young lesbians, are being excluded from lbgtq spaces because they won't date biological men, and you aren't aware of it.

How can you, be so well connected and not aware of any of these issues?

My lesbian mates say that most of the transwomen on their dating apps say 'no trans' in their profile.

So those ones don't consider other transwomen, as women. But actually women have to accept them as women.

It boggles my mind.

@Trevsadick I am here to discuss. I am very well established and connected in the lesbian and gay communities that I am part of, and have been for many years. The political rhetoric that I see being bounced around on forums is not representative of the world I see in person, first hand. To the extent that it makes me question what is going on in forums at times.

But previously, you were talking about transwomen being attracted to women, in which case they are heterosexual because transwomen are men.

No matter how you phrase it, the biological facts will not change.

Sex matters.

It would be interesting to know how many transwomen, who are attracted to biological women have dated a transwoman.

Yes, it would be interesting, wouldn’t it?

No one thinks that lesbian only spaces, dating apps, bars, clubs, etc, are being colonised by male individuals, because they can't be sustained by women! (who, unaccountably, suddenly don't have any money).

It's risible nonsense.

The experience of lesbians being erased is plastered from one end of the Internet to the other.

Hence LGB alliance, get the L out, etc.

Honestly 🙄

Well said, Trevsadick, in your post at 18.43. Spot on.

If a transwoman is attracted to women and also to other transwomen, they are attracted to women and also to men, so they are not heterosexual.

It would be interesting to know how many transwomen, who are attracted to biological women have dated a transwoman.

@suggestionsplease1 it appears you are only here, not to discuss.

But to keep telling women they are wrong.

We live in a city, near another major city. Not in a small town or village with no diversity. My dd, for example, wouldn't try and start a lesbian support group. Because if she doesn't include transwomen and any men that say they are women (no matter how they present) they will be hounded to close the doors.

Again, just because you are happy with biological males in lesbian spaces, doesn't mean all or the majority are. They don't need transwomen or men to keep the doors open. They need to be left alone and they would be fine. And if they have its no longer a space for lesbians. Because lesbian means same SEX attraction.

Again, you keep talking about your experience as though it's the experience of all women. But your experience isn't similar to most women.

You seem to think women aren't under pressure to engage with men, you believe that young lesbians can't possibly be being pressured to date trans women, now you believe lesbian spaces HAVE to accept men to stay open.

Your experience as a woman and a lesbian is world's away from many women's (straight or gay). You must live a very sheltered life not seeing anyone outside a small group of people. You must not see the news or any media at all. Ot even social media, or again keep it to a very small group of people who think exactly the same.

Or you are just saying whatever you feel the need to, to try and prove everyone else is wrong.

If a transwoman is attracted to women and also to other transwomen, they are attracted to women and also to men, so they are not heterosexual.

So they are bi but still not lesbians because they are male.

Mrs New. It is unacceptable to imply that people with DSD are not like everybody else, either male or female.

If a transwoman is attracted to women and also to other transwomen, they are attracted to women and also to men, so they are not heterosexual.

Take a look at michfest if you want a massive example of male bodied individuals shutting down female spaces.

The gay and lesbian community have spent decades making sure that their sexual orientation is legitimate and accepted.

And in a couple of short years, a juggernaut of a sexual rights movement like no other, is telling them they're fucking wrong.

Yes, Datun. And it really is the salt in the wound that this sexual rights movement claims to be their movement, their community! Which is in fact doing it’s damndest to erase and marginalise them, from and within what was once their own community. The proverbial cuckoo in the nest, Trojan Horse, whatever image of a manipulative usurper fits. It’s outrageous.

(Which is only matched by the takeover and repurposing of mainstream feminism to not just include but actively centre biologically male people.)

Maybe this whole debate shows a new term or phrase or name should be coined for trans women who are attracted to women, so their can be no confusion, hurt or upset?

Yes as said previously- heterosexual men.